Rep. Scott Hochberg: Section 26.003 I was the...I guess I was the primary author of Chapter 26 when we did it in the Education Code so I actually remember some of this stuff and it says that .."A parent is entitled to request, with the expectation that the request will not be unreasonably denied, the addition of a specific academic class in the course of study of the parent’s child in keeping with the required curriculum if sufficient interest is shown in the addition of the class to make it economically practical to offer the class."

Ronni Jenkins (parent): I can do it by heart. That is exactly where we went with them. They said we don’t think it means that.

Rep Hochberg: Oh. It means that.

Jenkins: Thank you! (applause)

Hochberg: Well, where I’ve seen it used is actually in the establishment of honors courses in schools that have chosen not to offer them, and so I’m not sure of the precedent where it was used to specify the book. But, I would certainly be interested to hear the arguments one way or another as to whether it does. The concern that brought that into the code was, actually it was your concern (Rep Sadler) and you weren’t on the committee, concern that certain courses were just not offered and you had to go across town..

Chairman Paul Sadler: That’s correct.

Rep Hochberg: ...for the course you wanted. But at the same time.. You know, I think the intent was that as long as the required curriculum was provided, that, there ought to be some ability for parents to have input into that process. I don’t know what that means if the school board gets up and says we were doing it that way but the kids weren’t passing TAAS and this way they don’t.

Jenkins: TAAS is not significantly changed by this.

Sadler: This is not, let me again, in the context of this bill this deals with much broader and more sweeping issues than one single school district. We have now heard from , how many Plano parents, and we have two or three more, I’d like to at least get the other side of the coin. Keith...thank you for volunteering to testify.

Keith Sockwell (Deputy Superintendent PISD): Well, this was certainly not why I came by, but now that I am here...

Sadler: This is in regards to HB 3396 which is a parental rights bill that makes certain changes to several sections of the code but primarily chapter 26 which is on parental rights. We have spent quite a bit of time now, almost an hour and a half, is over the math issue in Plano middle school with a number of disgruntled parents that said, and including a former board member, who have said that this first began as a pilot program and has now expanded throughout the middle schools and that it involves a textbook that meets only 60% of Teks, that a is non-conforming textbook and that a number of the parents showed up and said we don’t want to do this and the school board said you were going to do it anyway. And that all fits into the context of chapter 26 and what exactly are parents rights and when does a school district have to respond and how should you respond and what notice should be given prior to going in a different direction academically. That is the broader issue, but as I said to one of them, ever since I became chairman of this committee, sometime during the session, you all have brought a contingency of folks: down here and talked with me about concerns in your school district and I’ve watched Plano very closely and I’ve always felt that Plano was one of our leading, outstanding school districts in the state and that you guys are all nice guys and we were all trying to figure out what is going on. Inform me please. That’s, this is Keith Sockwell who is with the Plano district and I believe your exact title is ...

Sockwell: Deputy Superintendent. When we began to look at the connected math it was about 3 years ago. And, this was in response to our concern, certainly, test scores in mathematics and I think that the test scores support the fact, not only in our district but across the state we were concerned with the quality of our middle school programs and this was certainly looked at after our curriculum dept. had looked at a number of potential changes that we could make to our math program at the middle school level. And we began to look at the Connected Math program which is one of the textbooks that has been adopted. It is on the non-conforming list, but I think the thing that we want to point out..

Sadler: Is it the only textbook ...

Sockwell: Is it the only textbook??

Sadler: ..that can be used in the middle schools?

Sockwell: No, absolutely not.

Sadler: Is it in every school? It has been represented that this textbook is at all the middle schools.

Sockwell: Oh, this is the textbook, Rep Sadler, that has been approved and adopted by our board, and they also made the decision that the old book would be kept and could be used by our teachers as a supplemental book in the classroom but that the main book was the adopted textbook selected out of the current list of textbooks. I think it is important that I share with you the process that we went through in adopting this textbook. We have a textbook committee that is made up of teachers at each grade level where we have a book up for adoption. A group of middle school teachers that were selected to look at all the textbooks:, and to look at the program that we had in place , the connected math program, that we had in place at the 4 middle schools that we were piloting this and we were using this over the last 3 years. And we let them go through the process of reviewing, looking at, and looking at where we were trying to go with our math program and what we were trying to improve the quality of our math program in our middle schools, and this is the book that they did come back and recommend to our district and then to our board to adopt. I think what is important....pardon me?

Grusendorf: Did you have any parents on the advisory committee?

Sockwell: Did we have any parents on the advisory committee? On the final committee I think it was just made up of teachers of the math book, aah, representative the aah, the book I think, it is the textbook, it is not the entire curriculum. When you talk about it, that there are, that it does not conform to the Teks in some areas, we think that is the responsibility as we develop the curriculum is to be sure that all of the Teks and that they are covered in the classroom. And that the textbook is certainly a supplement to what we are trying to do with the curriculum, as far as the middle schools, is trying to improve the quality of the math program.

Sadler: That’s... that is precisely why we call it conforming and nonconforming list so that school districts if you choose a book off the nonconforming list then you would be able to determine what elements were not covered and you would supplement that text book to make sure that your students were taught the things that would be covered by TAAS.

Sockwell: That is exactly what we know is our responsibility, and exactly what we intend to do and will do and are doing as far as the development of and rewriting of the curriculum guides in our middle school math program. And we’re in the process.. that will begin now that a text book has been adopted, that process has started in redeveloping and rewriting the curriculum guides for our middle school math program.. you know I guess I’m greatly disturbed that we would... it is...is....taken that we would in any way try to do anything to create a program that was not beneficial to the learning of the students in our schools. I mean we, none of us have anything to benefit in that. It’s our responsibility to do everything we can to improve the quality of whether it be mathematics, language arts, Social studies, science, whatever the program is... is to continue to try to improve the quality of that program and improve the quality of education that our students receive.

Grusendorf: Mr. Chairman.

Sockwell: And that is the intent that we have in this.

Grusendorf: With all due respect, I don’t think one of the witnesses have questioned your intent. What they question is parental involvement, are you listening to the parents, are you listening to the people that pay your salaries? And I think that’s the complaint that I’ve heard form this group of people. Not a one of them have questioned your intent...

Hochberg: or attacked you...

Grusendorf: ..to try and do what you think is right.

Hochberg: And in fact, I don’t think you were in the room, but, I very specifically asked the question, ‘Is there any belief, by anybody in this process that the decision was made for any reason other than a good faith effort to improve the learning---was there any implication of impropriety, any implication of pay-offs, any imp-- and the parent who I was asking said absolutely not... we don’t doubt the Board and the administrations’ intent, we just don’t believe they made the right choice and we feel we were shut out of the process to question them.

Sadler: And so I think from a learning standpoint, and I don’t want to interrupt you... you have other things I know you want to tell us. But from our perspective it seems instructional to me that if we could focus on the process-- which I--- I know that’s where you were attempting to go. Look, for example, notice beforehand of the pilot program, notice of, was notice given out of the textbook, the fact that it did not cover Teks, what the intentions were, was there another public hearing, after the pilot program was there another public hearing? What exactly was the process that you followed....

Sockwell: Right.

Sadler: ..throughout? As Representative Grusendorf said, was there involvement of parents and at what stage? And then, finally, at the end, uh, were there complaints by parents and if so, what did you do and how did you handle it? I think that type of discussion is instructional to us as we--

Sockwell: Sure.

Sadler: ..look at the broader implications.

Sockwell: I that is, as far as the... that...the public hearing.... I know that we had a series and, and I... this would be our curriculum people... had a series of meetings with the parents that did have some concerns. Uh, they had meetings with them. They did have a hearing before the Board, uh, in regard to their concerns. They also... at the night that the text book was adopted, it was also a public hearing where our Board again heard--uh--their concerns, so there were two hearings where our Board did hear their concerns. There were a series of meetings where the parents did meet with, with our Associate Supt. for Curriculum and Instruction. Uh, we had a series of parent meetings at the middle schools this year, in fact I think we had meetings at every middle school where Connected Math, and this program was discussed at these meetings and where we did have public input at these meetings and I guess that would probably be either 8 or 10. I was not at all those meetings, but we did hold those meetings at each of our middle schools-- throughout the Fall and up until the final adoption of the text book. And then we did have our textbook committee made up of teachers, uh, that were actually teaching in the program and some not teaching in the program that actually made the final recommendation to our Board.

Grusendorf: Chair, can I make a comment? We had several, and I’m sorry you weren’t in here to hear the witnesses from Plano. We’ve had several complaints not only on the math program, but other aspects. Can you sort of explain to us your grievance procedure? If I’m a resident of Plano and a parent and I have a problem with the school district, how do you try to satisfy my problem? Or do you?

Sockwell: Well, we certainly try to give them an opportunity to come through and first of all, we would encourage them first is at the campus level to start either with the teacher or the building principal. And certainly then the next step would be at the .... at the central office level. Uh, in this case it was with the Area Asst. Superintendent. And then, certainly if it’s not satisfied, an opportunity to present their concerns to our Board.

Grusendorf: We under-- we had one witness who uh, said that they brought a complaint and based it on Chapter 26, and that y’all didn’t interpret Chapter 26 as them having many rights. And that’s sort of what we’re talking about now....

Sadler: Well, specifically let’s, let’s put it a little more specific. If you had, and one of the -- some of the testimony we heard I believe was that at the last hearing there were 24 people who spoke against it and one person for it , the Board adopted the text book anyway.

Sockwell: I think that, excuse me, Rep. Sadler, I think that there were more than one spoke in favor of it.

Sadler: Okay, umm, but there are approximately 250 parents now that have joined in this process and 26.003 says, "Request with the expectation that it will not be unreasonably denied, that the addition of a specific academic class in that course of study of the parent’s child, in keeping with the required curriculum, if sufficient interest is shown in the addition of the class to make it economically practical to offer the class." I would read that to say that if I had 250 parents show up and wanted the traditional textbook, or the previous textbook, to be taught, then I would find a way to make sure those classes were available. Is that not-- am I missing something there?

Sockwell: I..I...have not been aware of 256 or whatever the number was. We did have the 25 or 30 that did attend our Board meeting and we also did have, but I’m not aware the number.

Sadler: Let’s just, let’s just, again, for instructional purposes for us...let’s say that, your school district has how many students?

Sockwell: We have about 45,000.

Sadler: About 45,000, but you had 250 parents, well parents of 250 kids, and you were adopting a new text book, and they said, "No, we don’t want that....we want the old text book...the traditional text book. Can it economically, is it feasible to put together a classroom or series of classes for those 250 students that want to use the prior textbook? Can it be done?

Sockwell: If, if there were 250, I’m sure that it, feasib--, well...it could be done.

Sadler: What if there were, is there any way to determine where that cut off is? And what I want to know is if that statute is even reasonable for us to rely upon?

Sockwell: Uh, you know uh, if, if, if we have 10 middle schools and, and certainly it is evenly distributed across the middle schools, could you run another section of one particular class with 200? Certainly, you could. I that there, there is a point unless you want to bus students, or have them all go to one school, you know you would get into some things like that.

Sadler: Well could you just give the option to parents and see what kind of interest prior to school there was and if there were three hundred---wait a minute, let’s please don’t have an outburst. We’re trying to.. and I understand you’re, you’re anxious, but we’re trying to understand how this section interplays with decisions that are made in a very practical fashion. Is it possible to restructure? I guess given the number of students you could.. and actually offer different textbooks in a district that size? Have certain teachers assigned to teaching one way, one text book. [Pause] Is that feasible or not?

Sockwell: You know, I...

Sadler: Is it an aggravation, I don’t want to know the answer to that.

Sockwell: And I, you know, I wasn’t going to say it was an aggravation. I, I think that you could certainly look at this. Is it feasible, you would have to say, "Yes." It probably is feasible, you could do it. Is it the best? I don’t know. You know I, I think we question..

Grusendorf: The question really though is: do these parents have that right? And I think it was some of our intent when we passed this statute that the parents would have this right. And it says, "shall not be unreasonably denied." So the question is "do these parents have that right-- even though you may disagree with them?

Sockwell: If, If that is certainly the interpretation, you know if we have not interpreted that-- that properly... certainly they may have that right.

Hochberg: Well, and I guess, I guess my question if I might, would be: what in your mind, and you’re not the school district attorney, so, but, but what in your mind would trigger attention to that provision? At what point would you say, "Hmm, we have parents who have reasonably requested this, we need to consider the request to determine whether its practical?

Sadler: And lets use the flip side of that, for example, suppose you had 15 parents that came and said, "I want Saxon--Saxon math? Does the school district then have an obligation to try to put together a classroom of 15 student-- out of 45,000????

Grumann: Let’s flip it even more. Uh, you got parents who want to make you teach Spanish, you got parents who want to make you teach Ebonics.

Sadler: Uh, French, English, I mean French, Italian.

Hochberg: Ebonics isn’t in the State curriculum, but French is, and Spanish is and, and those in fact were..

Sadler: ..is precisely what..

Hochberg: is precisely why that was in there.

Sockwell: Yeah.

Hochberg: Because of those courses not being available at certain schools.

Sadler: There were certain schools that they were offered within a district but not others.

Sockwell: Yeah, I, I, I, think the thing that we have to keep in mind, though, that, as far as changing the curriculum.. we’re not talking about a change in the curriculum. There is a 6th grade Math curriculum, there is a 7th grade math curriculum, and there’s a 8th grade math curriculum. There are certain things that the TEKS requires to be taught and that the students...we try to be sure they master. We are not changing that curriculum. I think what..

Sadler: It’s a methodology, though.

Sockwell: It, it is a method by which we think, or our teachers think, and certainly I’m not a teacher, so I’m not even qualified to say-- you know one way or the other, but we have quality math teachers that have said, this is the best way, based on their knowledge as professionals, to teach mathematics. We’re going to teach the TEKS, we’re going to teach the curriculum. We’re not going to change the curriculum. We have changed the approach and the way that we teach the curriculum. I, you know, and I guess, so you’re saying, ‘create a course for these students’. You know the curriculum is not going to change. The method by which we teach the curriculum and in trying to improve the quality of the way the curriculum is being taught, that is what we’re attempting to do. And so you get in-- you say ‘parental rights’ in setting up a specific course, we have not changed..in our opinion.. we have not changed the curriculum.

Sadler: Well, let’s don’t get caught up in semantics.

Sockwell: And I agree. I understand.

Sadler: If it was a specific textbook, methodology, whatever you want to call it.

Sockwell: Sure.

[PAUSE]

Sadler: So help us with that. What do you think your requirements are? And what are reasonable.. what are ... what are some reasonable expectations of a parent?

[PAUSE]

Sockwell: Well, you know, I --- we, we certainly, uh, and we can get into parent involvement and we encourage and have parents involved. You know, I, I, I’m, I hear the number 200 and something you know...

Sadler: It doesn’t matter if its 25,000.

Sockwell: But, but you know if it were, if it were, you know 25....

Sadler: Mm hmm.

Hochberg: All in the same middle school.

Sockwell: But of course, they’re not all in the same one--

Hochberg: But if it were.

Sockwell: But if it were.

Hochberg: If it were. I’m trying to find out where it triggers.

Sockwell: Sure, and, and, and, and certainly maybe if 25 in one school ...

Hochberg: Mm hmm.

Sockwell: Maybe that does trigger it. I, you know.. maybe it does. Uh, I think that if we, if you had a request and you had 25 people ask for uh... Spanish I... and it was not being offered, and you would certainly, if it was reasonable and you could accommodate that, you would certainly try to accommodate that. Now, you know, uh---the quality of the program, if you offered the course and maybe that’s...

You’re not asking me about the quality, you’re asking, should you provide it? Uh...

Sadler: Well, its a fundamental question that is involved in education--public education...

Sockwell: Sure.

Sadler: in Texas. And that is, um, you know, how receptive are we in the public education system to-- ultimately-- our parents? And if a significant number ask, and desire a change, not only how receptive are we as individuals, but how receptive is the system as a whole----

Sockwell: Sure.

Sadler: To changing? And I have some doubt in my own mind, I tell you honestly that there-- in many areas-- I don’t think our public education system is capable of meeting the needs, and is receptive to those needs, uh because of the way its structured. But, here, clearly, if you have a group of parents that do not like a change in the text book and want to use the existing text book,

Sockwell: Well, I will-

Sadler: Should the district just completely close their eyes--

Sockwell: And I don’t think we have--

Sadler: and say you guys, just go away?

Sockwell: completely closed our eyes, Rep. Sadler, because I think if you go back and review that particular Board meeting, that particular, the current textbook that goes out of adoption is going to be retained by the, the district, will be provided to our teachers, as a supplemental part of the math curriculum in each of our middle schools. The, the Connected Math text has been adopted as the primary text book, but we are going to retain all of those textbooks and I think that if you go back and review that meeting, it was assured that it would be used as a part of the math program in the math classrooms.

Sadler: Now let me ask this question: What remedy should parents have? If a school district just completely refused to abide by their wishes? What remedy should be there? How do you put teeth into a section-- or a chapter like this? Should they be allowed to go into the court-- into the district court house to enforce their rights? Should they petition TEA? Should they just have to sit on their hands and live with it? What, what rights would a parent have? Or say a school district denied access to a child’s records, unfairly, what right should a parent, what remedy should a parent have under those circumstances? Any ideas?

Sockwell: Well, I have....

Sadler: It’s a little unfair just to throw it on you, but that puts you in the same position that this committee is put in with this issue that’s been brought forward.

Sockwell: The aah..it is my understanding that certainly this has gone to TEA and it is my understanding that TEA has contacted our district and has...to be sure or to find out are we conforming with the issue that has been brought up. Are we conforming to and teaching the TEKS as mandated by the state of Texas? This is certainly something we will be responding to, you know, to TEA in regard to that.

Grusendorf: But that is not the issue before us, the issue is not TEKS, the issue is whether parents have the right to insist on this...

Sockwell: Ok

Grusendorf: That is not the, I don’t think that was the Chairman’s question. He was asking you what rights do these parent’s have?

Sadler: Keep your mike on. Yeah. There is a part of this bill that’s before us, and I know you haven’t seen it, a part of this bill has a provision in it that would try to establish a remedy in the event of violation of parental rights.

Sockwell: Well, I...I will...

Sadler: I don’t know how you put teeth in this chapter, I remember us talking about it when we did the code, but... kind of curious what your thoughts were?

Sockwell: You know... aah...right now I am probably not prepared to give you a good answer. But, we’d be happy to talk to you further about this and to the committee about this and we would certainly be more than willing to bring staff down that was involved with this process and give you an opportunity to visit with them, if that’s your desire.

Grusendorf: This wasn’t the only complaint we’ve heard testimony on, we heard testimony on ......

Sadler: Please turn your mike up, I can’t hear.

Grusendorf: This is not the only complaint we’ve heard, it’s not just only this math issue that we’ve heard testimony about today. Basically, I think we’re hearing a bigger picture that a lot of these people from Plano do not feel like their voice is being heard when they go to the school district and raise a complaint. A gentleman was talking about children in bilingual education and getting their needs addressed. He didn’t feel like the Plano school district was open and forthright with what the law required there in that issue. So, I think that there’s a bigger issue that you’all really need to look at and not just tell us what you think about the math.

Sockwell: And I would certainly...

Grusendorf: But, to give us ...... to give us more information about what you do about parental grievances in Plano and what about your interpretation of this section 26.003. You know, we...because...we’ve got a bill before us that would maybe address some of these issues. So any input we can get in this respect would be helpful.

Sadler: It’s not just aah, I want to reiterate, it’s not just a pick on Plano, although that’s where many of these witnesses happen to be. Umm, I suspect, if you went in to almost every district in this state you would find parents that felt, umm, that were, that felt they weren’t being listened to or not part of the process. And so, I would like some input from Kent’s question, also, from you as to what you think is appropriate and how we should better handle this issue.

Sockwell: Well, we’ll certainly be glad to come back and visit with you. Representative Grusendorf, you did certainly pique my interest when you mentioned the bilingual education. Umm, and I would certainly like to know what was said about that because that certainly is a concern of all of ours, and....and extremely important to us and so.....

Grusendorf: Well, I hope I’ve piqued your interest on just parental rights in general.

Sockwell: Well you....

Rep. Rene Oliveira: 26.003 and you see that the decision of the Board of Trustees concerning a request under these sections is final and may not be appealed, there clearly is not...

Sadler: That’s right.

Oliveira: ...remedy.

Sadler: Right and I.....

Grusendorf: They don’t have any, they don’t have any rights.

Hochberg: Well, but I mean, I was just going to raise that...is that when we discussed this section, I think there was a very strong feeling that what we didn’t want to create the situation where TEA was reviewing every policy decision made by the Board.

Sadler: Absolutely.

Oliveira: Local control.

Hochberg: Well it, it is local control, but if you.....I think Mr. Grusendorf was very, not only supportive, but insistent on that particular part of it.

Grusendorf: In...in a situation like this, basically what we said was the paragraph 3 of this is the "request shall not be unreasonably denied". That means....that means those words mean absolutely nothing.

Sadler: Well, the issue is not just tied here, and I know you feel like you’re standing there and that we’re just talking among ourselves...and we are....and that’s true. Uh, if you’ll recall when we did the rewrite of the code, we had testimony both from former Commissioner Meno as well as Commissioner Moses on the issue of appeals from districts and particularly the amount of time and energy that was being spent on things like discipline matters, which we had yesterday on appeals from Chapter 37, a discipline matter where a child was placed in AP. There was a bill, by Tillery, that wanted to have the ultimate appeal with the Commissioners office. Uh...appeals for example, of a Board decision on textbooks like this, appeal all the way to the Commissioner and if you’ll recall the testimony we heard back 4 years ago, um... and there is some truth to the fact that appeals and controversies will rise to the highest level of being resolved. And, if you place the authority in the Commissioner to resolve the issue, then every issue will be resolved by the Commissioner. Everyone will seek, finally to have him resolve it. And so, we made a conscious decision then to restrict it to the Board Level and have the Board have a final decision, so that we would have some finality in it. Which, we saw yesterday with AP’s, where our Board was not responsive to a parent’s request of the child’s, uh, the sentence or - not the sentence - the punishment given to a child for placement of a child in AP. We see it today where we have parents that appear before a Board and say the Board doesn’t listen to us, what should we do? Which is why I get back to what is an appropriate remedy? Is the remedy simply allow appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal which ties up your time and money and the Commissioner’s as well as the parent. The parent has to travel to Austin to have the appeal. Or is there a better remedy or some way we can change the mindset of school districts that we really need to listen to these things and deal with them. And...and I seek your help in that issue.

Sockwell: We would certainly like to work with you ...

Hochberg: Mr. Chairman, if I might, one of my...one of my soap boxes that you may or may not have heard me on during the interim and past interims.....it’s no secret that I am not a fan of vouchers...and I’ve made that a soapbox, but I have also said to School Boards and to School Administrators, if you don’t want to disenfranchise active parents that you have an obligation to respect conflicting opinions and to accommodate, where....where reasonably possible, to accommodate their interests and to keep them on your side, not only from the standpoint of vouchers, but from the standpoint of parental involvement, from the standpoint of having people working with the system instead of against it. Time spent by these parents on this issue is really not time spend productively aiding the education of their children. It is spent....it is political time. It is, and....it has continued to amaze me that the concept of customer service doesn’t seem to have ever sunk into enterprises like school boards in general. (Applause from audience.) And please, no, please don’t do that. And that....that School Boards would do themselves a great service, and school administrators would do themselves a great service, to figure out a methodical way to incorporate these sorts of concerns. Not a hit or miss thing, not a well if they scream loud enough we’ll sit down and figure something out. But, something where things are handled on a regular basis and I’ve even suggested that in...in most districts it needs to be done by somebody other than the principal who has lots of other things that he or she has to do and considers a parent coming in to be an interruption in their day, which it really is. Um....so much of the dissatisfaction with districts is...I...I guess my...you should never go back to your own example, but I just remember the number of times my folks went and pestered the Superintendent and the School Board and I suppose that’s my foundation for being on this committee. Um...and pestered them over and over what they thought were arbitrary and petty decisions and sometimes they got it rectified and other times they didn’t, and that’s fine, but it was always a fight. It was never a process, it was always a fight. And I’d sure like to figure, and ... and my motivation working on Chapter 26 was to set some ground rules so that it wouldn’t always have to be a fight. So that there would be something where we could say allright, you know, and particularly men like rules ‘cause we all grew up playing games and sports and so...here’s the rules. OK, these are the rules, we’ve all agreed on them, you get the final decision, but you’ve got to take them into account, and now the frustration is how do we actually get this to be in the culture rather than, and something that’s natural rather than something that has to be forced every time?

Sockwell: And you know, Rep. Hochberg, I sit here and listen to everything you say and have to agree with everything that you’ve said. Now, I think that’s certainly the approach that we would all like to take and....and as I look back on the process we went through, uh maybe we felt that we were taking and trying to involve and take those steps. One of the things I failed to mention, and this may be significant or insignificant. We did put together a committee of Businessman to look at this program this past Fall. It was chaired by one of the CEO’s of one of the banks and he put together the rest of the Committee of businessmen in the community as well as a math teacher at the Community College, aah....to sit and look at this. They took testimony not only from our math teachers, from our curriculum people, but also members of the parents that are here today and listened to them. And...and as far as us trying to look and be sure that we looked at every element of this program. Maybe we didn’t go far enough, and I would not stand here and try to debate that or argue that with you at all. And maybe we need to take another look at that, but certainly, I cannot argue with where you are coming from as far as trying to resolve things with parents and that’s something that I’ve been in this business 34 years and I think I’ve been pretty successful over those years as a teacher and as a Building Principal and a Central Administrator at resolving issues. This one we were not successful with. It’s very apparent. But, over the years, I think we have been quite successful. If we need to re-look at it, we certainly are very willing to do this. Uh, but I want to say one time, and I think you have agreed with this and I hope the parents, our interest is in doing ....absolutely providing the best program we can for children. If we need to re-look at the way we interpret Chapter 26, of the Code, uh, I...I accept that and will certainly be willing to do that, but I think we went through a number of processes to get input to be sure we were doing the correct thing, and uh, but from that point on we can only move forward with this. And we’d certainly be willing to provide any other data to you that we can.

Hochberg: Please understand I’m not scolding.

Sockwell: I...I did not take it as such.

Hochberg: I’m not trying to....trying to sound that way. I think one of the other goals of Senate Bill 1 was to provide a code that was flexible and broad enough to allow a variety of answers to almost any question and to allow a variety of approaches and it stymies the effort of that if we have replaced statewide uniformity with district-wide uniformity, particularly where districts are large. Thank the Chair.

Sadler: Mmm..hmm. Any other questions? Thanks.

Sockwell: Thank you Rep. Sadler. Anytime, I’m happy to appear and share my thoughts with you. Thank you very much.

Grusendorf: (aside) Whether it’s voluntarily or involuntarily.

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