0001 01 IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS 01 FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT 02 02 03 CELIA J. CHIU; DENISE BROWN; * 03 VERONICA C. JENKINS; DENISE * 04 KIRKE; ALFRED G. KIRKE; AND * 04 KENNETH R. JOHNSON * 05 * 05 Plaintiffs/Appellees, * 06 * CIVIL ACTION NO. 06 VS. * 00-40613 07 * 07 PLANO INDEPENDENT SCHOOL * 08 DISTRICT, ET AL. * 08 * 09 Defendants, * 09 * 10 JAMES DAVIS, DR., PISD CENTRAL * 10 CLUSTER AREA ASSISTANT * 11 SUPERINTENDENT; MARILYN BROOKS, * 11 ASSOCIATE SUPERINTENDENT FOR * 12 CURRICULUM AND INSTRUCTIONS; * 12 JAMES WOHLGEHAGEN, DR.; * 13 ROXANNE BURLESON, PRINCIPAL * 13 HAGGARD MIDDLE SCHOOL; CORKY * 14 CRISWELL, PRINCIPAL HENDRICK * 14 MIDDLE SCHOOL; BEVERLY SELLERS, * 15 PRINCIPAL WILSON MIDDLE SCHOOL, * 15 * 16 Defendants/Appellants. * 16 17 18 ******************************************** 19 ORAL DEPOSITION OF 20 ROXANNE BURLESON 21 OCTOBER 2, 2000 22 ******************************************** 23 24 25 0002 01 ORAL DEPOSITION OF ROXANNE BURLESON, produced 02 as a witness at the instance of the Plaintiffs, and 03 duly sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered 04 cause on the 2nd day of October, 2000, from 9:14 a.m. 05 to 11:34 a.m., before Sunny Schaen, a CSR in and for 06 the State of Texas, reported stenographically, at the 07 offices of the Plano Independent School District, 08 2700 West 15th Street, Plano, Texas 75075, pursuant to 09 the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the provision 10 stated on the record. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 01 A P P E A R A N C E S 02 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 02 Mr. William Charles Bundren 03 Attorney at Law 03 P. O. Box 702647 04 Dallas, Texas 75370 04 (972) 630-3555 05 05 Mr. Kelly G. Rogers 06 8 Riva Ridge 06 Frisco, Texas 75034 07 (972) 335-5421 07 08 08 09 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 09 Mr. Richard M. Abernathy 10 ABERNATHY ROEDER BOYD & JOPLIN, P.C. 10 1700 Redbud Boulevard 11 Suite 300 11 P.O. Box 1210 12 McKinney, Texas 75070-1210 12 (214) 544-4000 13 13 14 ALSO PRESENT: Ms. Ronni Jenkins 14 Mr. Kenneth R. Johnson 15 Mr. Alfred Kirke 15 16 16 17 17 18 18 19 19 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 0004 01 I N D E X 01 02 WITNESS PAGE 02 ROXANNE BURLESON 03 03 EXAMINATION 04 BY: MR. BUNDREN 5 04 05 05 06 EXHIBITS INDEX 06 07 EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION IDENTIFIED 07 08 58 Invitation to Haggard Math Night 34 08 09 59 Diagram of Haggard Middle School 41 09 10 60 Diagram of Rooms 407 and 408 43 10 11 61 Petition Concerning CMP 49 11 12 62 Affidavit of Roxanne Burleson 72 12 13 63 August 26, 1998, Memo to Central 88 13 Cluster All Principals from Jim Davis 14 14 64 May 4, 2000, Court Order of 97 15 Judge Brown 15 16 16 17 17 18 18 19 19 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 0005 01 P R O C E E D I N G S 02 ROXANNE BURLESON, 03 having being first duly sworn, testified as follows: 04 MR. BUNDREN: Richard, same agreements as 05 we had on Thursday? 06 MR. ABERNATHY: What were those? 07 MR. BUNDREN: Take them pursuant to the 08 Rules. 09 MR. ABERNATHY: That's fine. 10 MR. BUNDREN: And we are sequentially 11 marking the exhibits. We started with No. 1, and the 12 original exhibits are in front of you, if you need to 13 refer to them. 14 EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. BUNDREN: 16 Q. Would you state your name, please. 17 A. Roxanne Burleson. 18 Q. Ms. Burleson, my name is Charles Bundren, and 19 I'm an attorney. I represent some parents that have 20 sued you and the school district. Do you understand 21 that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. We're here to take your deposition today. 24 Have you ever had your deposition taken before? 25 A. No. 0006 01 Q. Have you ever testified under oath before? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. How many times have you testified under oath? 04 A. Once. 05 Q. What was that related to? 06 A. It was related to a student who had taken 07 money out of another student's lunch account. 08 Q. Any other times that you've testified under 09 oath? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Have you ever been a party to a lawsuit 12 before? 13 A. No. 14 Q. If I ask you a question that you don't 15 understand, I'd like to have an agreement with you that 16 you'll ask me to clarify it before you try to answer 17 it. Would you do that? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. If you don't hear my question, would you ask 20 me to repeat it before you try to answer it? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. You understand that the parties and the Court 23 and the Plaintiffs will be relying upon your testimony 24 here, just as if we were in front of the jury and the 25 judge at the time the case is called to trial? 0007 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. If your testimony is inconsistent with any of 03 your prior affidavits or if it's inconsistent at trial, 04 I'm entitled to call that to the judge's and the jury's 05 attention. Do you understand that? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. And you understand that even though the judge 08 is not here and we're not in a courtroom, that the 09 court reporter has administered an oath, and you must 10 testify truthfully subject to the laws of perjury? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Would you tell me your date of birth, please. 13 A. January 16, 1956. 14 Q. Where were you born? 15 A. I'm sorry? 16 Q. Where were you born? 17 A. Cheyenne, Wyoming. 18 Q. What is your Texas driver's license number? 19 A. I can look it up for you. 20 Q. Thank you. 21 A. *********. 22 Q. What is your social security number? 23 A. ***-**-****. 24 Q. Where do you currently reside? 25 A. 7421 Hamner Lane. 0008 01 Q. How do you spell that? 02 A. H-a-m-n-e-r. 03 Q. What city is that in? 04 A. Plano. 05 Q. Who else resides there with you? 06 A. My husband and my two sons. 07 Q. Where did you graduate from high school? 08 A. Hirschi High School in Wichita Falls. 09 Q. And where did you attend college? 10 A. Midwestern State University in Wichita Falls, 11 University of Texas at Arlington, and North Texas. 12 Q. When did you first enroll in college? 13 A. In the summer of 1974. 14 Q. And where did you enroll? 15 A. Midwestern. 16 Q. How long did you attend there? 17 A. Three years. 18 Q. Did you receive a degree? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What was your degree in? 21 A. A degree in education and political science. 22 Q. Was it a bachelor's degree? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Where did you next attend college? 25 A. University of Texas at Arlington. 0009 01 Q. What year did you enroll there? 02 A. 1977. 03 Q. What degree were you pursuing? 04 A. A master's of science in political science. 05 Q. Did you receive that degree? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. In what year? 08 A. 1980. 09 Q. When did you attend North Texas? 10 A. I don't remember specifically the date. It 11 was the late '80s. 12 Q. What degree were you pursuing? 13 A. I was pursuing certification in public school 14 mid-management. 15 Q. Did you get a degree from the University of 16 North Texas? 17 A. I got certification. 18 Q. Have you ever been the subject of a grievance 19 at any school you've worked at? 20 A. No. 21 Q. When did you first start teaching? 22 A. In 1978. 23 Q. Where at? 24 A. Houston Independent School District. 25 Q. What position did you have there? 0010 01 A. I was at McReynolds Junior High, and I taught 02 reading, American history, and English. 03 Q. Just a classroom teacher? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. How long did you remain in that position? 06 A. One year. 07 Q. What position did you next take in education? 08 A. My next position in education was in 1980, and 09 I moved to Plano and began teaching English and 10 American history at Carpenter Middle School. 11 Q. Is that part of the Plano Independent School 12 District? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So you became an employee of the Plano 15 Independent School District in 1980? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. As a classroom teacher? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. How long did you remain as a classroom 20 teacher? 21 A. In Plano, I remained for five years. 22 Q. Until 1985? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What position did you next take? 25 A. In 1986, I taught at Graham Junior High in 0011 01 Graham, Texas. 02 Q. Graham? 03 A. Graham, uh-huh. 04 Q. How long did you teach at Graham? 05 A. One year. 06 Q. Between 1980 and 1985 when you were at Plano, 07 did you have any promotions to any kind of 08 administration position? 09 A. I became a team leader in 1981. 10 Q. What is a team leader? 11 A. My role was the team leader for 8th grade 12 American history, and I helped organize lesson plans, 13 communication between the administration and my team. 14 Q. In Graham were you just a classroom teacher? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Where did you go after Graham? 17 A. To Plano. 18 Q. Back to the Plano Independent School District? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What position did you take then? 21 A. I went back to Carpenter Middle School and 22 taught English for one year. And then the next year, I 23 taught American history. 24 Q. Okay. What position did you take after that? 25 A. In 1982, I was -- 0012 01 Q. '82 or '92? 02 A. '92, I'm sorry. In 1992 I became the dean of 03 students at Carpenter. 04 Q. That's a middle school; is that right? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. What were your duties and responsibilities as 07 dean of students? 08 A. I dealt basically with student management. 09 Q. Discipline? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. How long were you dean of students at 12 Carpenter Middle School? 13 A. Four years. 14 Q. That takes us to 1996? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What position did you take next? 17 A. Assistant principal at Haggard Middle School. 18 Q. When did you take that position? 19 A. In 1996 -- the fall of 1996. 20 Q. How long did you remain as assistant 21 principal at Haggard Middle School? 22 A. A year and a half. 23 Q. What position did you take after that? 24 A. Principal. 25 Q. Haggard Middle School? 0013 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. What year did you -- or what semester did you 03 take over as principal of Haggard Middle School? 04 A. The spring semester. 05 Q. Of which year? 06 A. The 1997-'98 school year. 07 Q. So that would have been January of '98? 08 A. February of '98 I was named by the Board. 09 Q. What position do you hold now? 10 A. Principal of Haggard Middle School. 11 Q. So it hasn't changed? 12 A. No. 13 Q. When did you receive your first TEA 14 certification in education? 15 A. When did I receive it? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. In 1977. 18 Q. Was that a teacher's certification? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What certification did you receive next? 21 A. Mid-management certification. 22 Q. When did you receive that? 23 A. I'm not sure specifically -- '92 or '93. 24 Q. And do you have any other certifications? 25 A. No. 0014 01 Q. What teacher associations or organizations are 02 you a member of? 03 A. Teacher associations? 04 Q. Yes, ma'am, or educational associations. 05 A. National Association of Second School 06 Principals, and the Texas affiliate with that. ASCD, 07 which is Association of Supervision and Curriculum 08 Development, and Phi Delta Kappa. I'm also a member of 09 the local Delta Kappa Gamma, an education sorority. 10 Q. Do you feel it's important for administrators 11 and teachers to get continuous training and education 12 in their profession? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Have you, over the years that you've been 15 involved in education, received continuous training? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Tell me about the types of education that you 18 have received -- and let's say since you received your 19 mid-management certificate. And first of all, why 20 don't you explain to us what a mid-management 21 certificate is. 22 A. It's a certificate that the state requires 23 that you must have to be an administrator at a public 24 school in Texas. I had 39 hours of related courses for 25 public school administration. 0015 01 Q. At the University of North Texas? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. And this is after you had received your 04 bachelor's and your master's? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. And your bachelor's was in education? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. And your master's was in education? 09 A. No. 10 Q. What was it in? 11 A. Political science. 12 Q. Political science. And then you had 39 hours 13 of specialized training on becoming an administrator? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Since you have received your certificate, have 16 you had ongoing training about how to become an 17 administrator and what the duties and responsibilities 18 of administrator are in public education? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Tell me about that additional training that 21 you've had since you got your certification. 22 A. Just last year, I was involved in a program 23 with the Region 10 Service Center called The 24 Principal's Leadership Academy, and it was an ongoing 25 series of in-services on being a principal. 0016 01 Q. Anything else? 02 A. The District provides pretty regular 03 in-service for us as well. And I also attend 04 conventions and seminars as they come about that I see 05 would be relevant. 06 Q. Okay. Does the District have any type of 07 requirement for its administrators that they must 08 receive a certain number of hours of in-service or 09 convention training or anything like that in the 10 profession? 11 A. There is a requirement. I don't know 12 specifically the number of hours. 13 Q. Does the state have a requirement for you to 14 get continuing education in order to remain certified? 15 A. Not yet. 16 Q. They're working on it, aren't they? 17 A. They're working on it. 18 Q. All right. But never the less, you feel it's 19 important that you get continuous education? 20 MR. ABERNATHY: Object to form. 21 Q. Do you? 22 MR. ABERNATHY: Object to form. 23 Q. Do you feel that way? 24 MR. ABERNATHY: Object to form. You can 25 answer. 0017 01 THE WITNESS: I can answer? 02 MR. ABERNATHY: If I don't object, I 03 waive the objection. 04 THE WITNESS: Okay. 05 A. Would you ask the question again, please? 06 Q. Do you feel it's important that principals and 07 educators get continuing education? 08 MR. ABERNATHY: Object to form. 09 A. It's important to me that I get continuous 10 education. 11 Q. And in your training to become a teacher and 12 your certification to become a teacher and 13 certification to become mid-management, the specialized 14 hours you took, all the extra training that you've had, 15 have you ever had an occasion to receive any training 16 on a public school's relationship with the students, 17 the parents, the teachers, and other people who might 18 be affiliated with the school? 19 A. Would you ask that again, please? 20 Q. Sure. In all of this training that you've had 21 to become a principal and receive your certifications 22 and so forth, have you ever had any materials or any 23 training on the relationship between the school and the 24 students or the school and the family or the parents or 25 the teachers or others who might become involved in the 0018 01 school? 02 A. Have I had training in those relationships? 03 Q. That's correct. 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. Okay. In fact, that's one of the things you 06 get training on a lot, isn't it, the relationships 07 between the school and the students, the school and the 08 parents, family? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. It's important, isn't it? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it's important that the school encourage 13 parent -- parental involvement in their child's 14 education, isn't it? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And you do that, don't you? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And this school district does that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. You make it a point to try to encourage 21 parents to become involved? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. To become involved in what the students are 24 doing, to become involved in their education, to become 25 involved in their work and in the curriculum, don't 0019 01 you? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. And that's encouraged? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. And you feel it's important to encourage that, 06 don't you? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any training in your 09 experience as a school teacher on any kind of legal 10 rights that students or parents have with respect to 11 the school? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. What kind of training have you had on 14 that? 15 A. I took a course in public school law. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. I attended -- in 1998, I attended the legal 18 issues seminar in Austin. I receive the Legal Update 19 regularly. 20 Q. This is in addition to the 1998 program? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What is the Legal Update? 23 A. It's a publication that -- that writes up the 24 briefs of recent court cases relating to education. 25 Q. How long have you been receiving the Legal 0020 01 Update? 02 A. Since I've been at Haggard. 03 Q. As a principal? 04 A. As an assistant. 05 Q. So it's been three or four years? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. How often does the Legal Update come out? 08 A. I couldn't say specifically. 09 Q. Is it a monthly or a bimonthly -- 10 A. I don't think it's monthly. It's probably 11 more a couple of times a semester, possibly. 12 Q. And who publishes the Legal Update? 13 A. I don't remember. 14 Q. The Texas Association of School Boards? TEA? 15 A. I couldn't say. Jim Walsh's firm writes 16 briefs in it, but I cannot specifically remember who 17 publishes it. 18 Q. But it's some educational association of some 19 sort? 20 A. I don't know if it is or not. 21 Q. Is it written for school administrators? 22 A. Uh-huh. Yes, I think so. 23 Q. Do you read it? 24 A. I read it when I can. 25 Q. Okay. In your course on legal issues and the 0021 01 law -- let me back up to 1998, the course that you took 02 down in Austin, what was that in connection with? 03 A. You mean why did I go or how was it presented 04 or -- 05 Q. Who sponsored it? 06 A. I think it was the Texas Association of 07 Secondary School Principals, but I'm not certain. 08 Q. When in 1998 did you go down there to take 09 that course? 10 A. It was in June. 11 Q. And was this a day-long course, two-day long 12 course? 13 A. I think I attended it for a day and a half. 14 Q. And what types of topics were discussed or 15 were you given training on with respect to legal issues 16 in a public school? 17 A. I have to tell you, I can't remember 18 specifically what was addressed or even what -- what 19 seminars I went to. 20 Q. Were there written materials? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Handouts? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Things you could take home and review? 25 A. Yes. 0022 01 Q. Did you take them home and review them? 02 A. I took them home. 03 Q. Did you review them? 04 A. No. 05 Q. All right. Did you make the decision as to 06 what you wanted to attend when you got down there? Do 07 you understand my question? 08 A. Yes, and I don't remember. 09 Q. Okay. But nevertheless, you took this school 10 issues program in June of 1998 in Austin? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Sponsored by some agency of something to try 13 to give you training as a principal at that time, I 14 guess -- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- on school law; is that right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did you -- in that conference, did you study 19 the legal rights of students enrolled in your school? 20 A. Specifically study that? I don't remember. 21 Q. Did you study the rights of parents? 22 A. I have to be honest, I can't remember exactly 23 what I heard those two days. 24 Q. Now, you also said you took a course in public 25 school law? 0023 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. Was this up at North Texas? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Okay. And this was for purposes of your 05 mid-management certification? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. Was that a three-hour course of study? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. So over the course of a semester, you took a 10 three-hour college course on school law? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did you learn in that course about the 13 relationship between the school and the students and 14 the school and the parents? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. A lot of study on that? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. So you know that a student doesn't shed 19 their constitutional rights when they cross a 20 schoolhouse gate? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. You're familiar with that quote from Tinker? 23 A. I don't remember specifically the case, but I 24 certainly remember the quote. 25 Q. It's a memorable quote in your mind, isn't it? 0024 01 A. Yes, it is. 02 Q. That a student, when they come onto the campus 03 doesn't shed their right to engage in First Amendment 04 activity? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. And you knew that? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. You learned that when you were going through 09 your certification process? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. Did you learn about the rights of your 12 teachers to engage in First Amendment discussion by and 13 between themselves? 14 A. I don't remember. 15 Q. In addition to the three-hour course of study 16 at North Texas, the 1998 legal issues seminar in 17 Austin, the Legal Updates that you received 18 periodically, does the Plano Independent School 19 District -- or have you ever participated -- let me ask 20 it this way -- in a program sponsored by the Plano 21 Independent School District teaching administrators on 22 the rights of students and parents and teachers? 23 A. A specifically organized event? 24 Q. Something in which you're receiving -- I think 25 you referred to it as in-service training. Is that 0025 01 what it's called? 02 A. Uh-huh. 03 Q. Is that right? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. All right. Have you received in-service 06 training from the school district on legal rights? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. Okay. Tell me about those. 09 A. Those probably have more to do with special 10 education students and the rights of parents and 11 students with disabilities. 12 Q. Ever receive any in-service training from the 13 school district on distribution of literature on 14 campuses? 15 A. Specific training? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. No. 18 Q. Ever receive any in-service training from the 19 District on First Amendment rights of students while on 20 your campus? 21 A. Not that I remember. 22 Q. How about First Amendment rights of parents? 23 A. Not that I remember. 24 Q. How about distribution of literature by 25 parents? 0026 01 A. It could have been mentioned at an in-service. 02 I don't remember. 03 Q. Have you received any specific training in any 04 in-service type of program from the school district 05 with respect to enforcement of your school district's 06 policies as they relate to distribution of materials? 07 A. Would you ask that again, please? 08 Q. Have you received any training from the school 09 district specifically related to understanding and 10 implementing the school district's policies on 11 distribution of material? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Have you ever received any training from the 14 school district on understanding and implementing the 15 school district policies? 16 A. Specific training? 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. No. 19 Q. You know the school district has policies, 20 don't you? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you understand that as an administrator, 23 you're supposed to know those policies? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. I assume you have a copy of them in your 0027 01 office? 02 A. They're on-line. 03 Q. Okay. So you can get them on-line. Do you 04 have a hard copy in your office too? 05 A. No. 06 Q. So the current policy can be pulled up by you 07 any time on-line? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. How long has the school district had its 10 policies available on-line? 11 A. I couldn't tell you. It's been fairly recent. 12 Q. Well, last year? 13 A. Probably two. 14 Q. Now, prior to that, did you have a hard 15 copy -- 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. -- in your office of the school district's 18 policies? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you don't ever recall there being a 21 specific training course by the school district on how 22 to interpret or enforce those policies? 23 A. There are numerous in-services provided by the 24 school district. And most all of them relate to 25 policy. So whether they framed it as such, that this 0028 01 is a policy and this is how you implement it, I don't 02 recall that, but we receive lots of training that 03 relates to school district policy. 04 Q. Okay. Have you ever received training from 05 the school district relating to a policy on 06 distribution of materials at your school? 07 A. Not that I can remember. 08 Q. Have you ever received training relating to 09 the legal rights of parents while on school campus? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. When did you receive that training? 12 A. It's -- I can't point specifically to it. It 13 seems that it's been ongoing however. 14 Q. Who taught that? 15 A. I don't know. 16 Q. How long did the training last? 17 A. Most of our trainings and sessions run about 18 three hours. 19 Q. Did this training session focus on rights of 20 parents on school property for three hours? 21 A. No. 22 Q. How much time was spent focusing on the rights 23 of parents on school property? 24 A. I don't remember. 25 Q. Less than an hour? 0029 01 A. Possibly. I couldn't be that specific. 02 Q. Do you know Mr. Kirke? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. One of the Plaintiffs in this case? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. How do you know Mr. Kirke? 07 A. His child is a student on our campus. 08 Q. Is that Haggard Middle School? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. How long has Mr. Kirke had a child enrolled in 11 Haggard Middle School? 12 A. I think -- I think his son was enrolled in 13 1996, and he withdrew his son. And then I think 14 Bethany came in 19 -- she's in 8th grade, so 1997. 15 Q. Is Bethany still enrolled there? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And has been continuously enrolled there since 18 1997? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Let's talk a little bit about the connected 21 math program. When did you first become aware that the 22 District was considering in the middle schools 23 implementing a connected math program? 24 A. When I came to Haggard in 1996. 25 Q. And what did you learn about the connected 0030 01 math program in 1996? 02 A. I learned that it was a program that our 03 school was piloting. 04 Q. Was it being piloted at Haggard? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. Had you heard of connected math prior to that? 07 A. No. 08 Q. What do you mean by being piloted at Haggard? 09 A. There were four schools who were piloting the 10 program -- who were actually teaching it. 11 Q. So you taught it as a pilot program in the 12 '96-'97 school year? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And then again in '97-'98? 15 A. It was to be phased in, a grade level a year. 16 Q. At Haggard? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. Is that right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Thank you. What grade level was it phased in, 21 in '96-'97? 22 A. 6th grade. 23 Q. And how about the next year? 24 A. 7th. 25 Q. That would have been 1997-'98? 0031 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. And then 1998-'99, was it also implemented as 03 a pilot? 04 A. In the 8th grade, yes, it was. 05 Q. Now, at some point did you participate in or 06 become aware that the school was going to sponsor some 07 parent-teacher math nights? 08 A. Will you repeat the question? 09 Q. At some point in 1998, did you have some 10 parent-teacher math nights? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. When was that? 13 A. In the early fall of 1998. 14 Q. Had you had any parent-teacher math nights 15 dealing with connected math prior to that? 16 A. Uh-huh. 17 Q. You need to answer with words. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Thank you. In the early fall of 1998, would 20 that have been either the August, September time frame? 21 A. August. 22 Q. August, okay. So your semester begins in 23 August? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. So it would have been right at the first of 0032 01 that semester? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. And there was an announcement that went out to 04 the parents inviting them to come do this? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. Was it intended that all parents would be 07 invited? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. Were they encouraged to come? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did the school district send fliers home with 12 the students in their backpacks announcing the 13 parent-teacher math nights? 14 A. We did. The school did, yes. 15 Q. So you did that at Haggard? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. So each middle school student or just 18 particular grades, or how did you do that? 19 A. All students received the flier. 20 Q. How many students were there at Haggard at 21 that time, approximately? 22 A. Approximately 930. 23 Q. So you had approximately 930 fliers that went 24 out to parents inviting them to come to a 25 parent-teacher math night? 0033 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. And this math night was conducted during 03 non-curriculum times? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. In the evenings? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. When the student had left the school? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. And the flier was sent home with the students 10 in their backpacks? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Do you remember who prepared the flier? 13 A. I did. 14 Q. Did you have anyone review the flier before 15 you sent it home? 16 A. I always ask my English department head to 17 review everything I send out. 18 Q. Is that to check for spelling? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So you prepared it, and then you had the 21 English department review it? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And copied it? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And it was distributed to the students for 0034 01 them to take home to their parents; is that right? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. And you felt, I assume, that what you were 04 doing was in compliance with district policy at that 05 time? 06 A. I don't know that it was in compliance with 07 district policy, but I had been asked to have the 08 meeting. 09 Q. Who asked you to have the meeting? 10 A. I don't remember specifically. 11 Q. Was it somebody from the administration? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And do you know why they wanted you to have 14 the meeting? 15 A. To provide information to parents about the 16 program. 17 Q. Connected math? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So the subject matter of the meeting was to 20 discuss a math curriculum called connected math? 21 A. To provide information about connected math. 22 Q. Okay. Is this the flier that you sent home? 23 A. Yes. 24 (Exhibit No. 58 marked.) 25 Q. Let me hand you what's been marked as 0035 01 Exhibit 58, which has been document control number 02 labeled 000774, which is the flier. And is Exhibit 58 03 the flier that you sent home? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. We have sequentially numbered these exhibits. 06 That's the reason it's No. 58. 07 A. Okay, great. 08 Q. So this is the flier you sent home. And you 09 sent it home with the children in their backpacks; is 10 that right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And you didn't get any specific approval to do 13 that. You just did it because you were told to? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Now, did the administration tell you to send 16 home fliers with the children? 17 A. I don't remember. 18 Q. They told you that there was going to be a 19 meeting? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Who decided when the meeting would be and 22 where? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. And it was scheduled for August the 25th, 25 1998? 0036 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. Between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m.? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Does the flier say where it's at? 05 A. No, but we had signs. 06 Q. So you had signs directing the parents? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. Where did you actually conduct the meeting? 09 A. In rooms 407 and 408. 10 Q. Are those classrooms? 11 A. It's a multi-purpose room for us. It's a 12 large double classroom where we have meetings of this 13 kind and staff meetings and speakers. 14 Q. So anytime you're going to have a larger group 15 than a normal classroom attend a meeting, whether it's 16 parents, teacher, children, speakers, this is where you 17 normally conduct it? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, I assume that these classrooms had a 20 hallway? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Had a foyer-type area? 23 A. Outside of 407 and 408? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. It's just a hallway. There's not necessarily 0037 01 a foyer. 02 Q. Let me ask you if you could -- and I know 03 you're not an artist because I haven't heard anything 04 in your background about being an artist -- but could 05 you kind of draw me just a rough sketch of the school 06 and kind of show me like where the major roads are to 07 the school and then where the meeting was held on the 08 school campus. 09 A. The major intersections, the roads around the 10 school? 11 Q. Yes, the streets that run around the school. 12 A. I don't think Haggard is necessarily a square, 13 but -- here's Independence, here's Parkhaven, and 14 here's the front entry to the school. 15 Q. Is there a flagpole somewhere? 16 A. Uh-huh. There's a little portico and there's 17 flagpoles right here. 18 Q. Why don't you put flagpole right out there so 19 it will indicate -- that's the front of the school, 20 right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. And is there a sidewalk coming up from 23 Independence to the front? 24 A. No. There's -- there's a lot of field out 25 here. There's a -- we're way back from Independence. 0038 01 We're not right on Independence. 02 Q. How far back are you from Independence? 03 A. I don't know. 04 Q. A football field? 05 A. At least. 06 Q. Two football fields? 07 A. Probably. 08 Q. All right. Once you get to the school, is 09 there some kind of a driveway area? 10 A. Uh-huh. There's a circular drive right here. 11 There's a parking lot here. This is much, much too 12 close to Independence. I guess if I draw it more to 13 scale, Independence would be out here. 14 Q. Why don't we do that? 15 A. Okay. Here's the drive. The flagpoles are 16 right here, a little covered portico, and here's the 17 front door. 18 Q. Okay. Why don't you label this. Just out 19 here on the side put flagpole so we'll know what that 20 is. And then just put circle drive to indicate that. 21 So cars come in and drop kids off? 22 A. Uh-huh. 23 Q. And what did you call this? 24 A. Portico. 25 Q. Why don't you draw a line over here and label 0039 01 that portico. 02 A. (Witness complies.) 03 Q. Okay. As you walk into the front door, is the 04 school basically a rectangle? 05 A. For the most part. 06 Q. Okay. As you walk into the front door, where 07 would you have to go to get to rooms 407 and 408? Let 08 me first ask you, was the front door to the building, 09 was it open? 10 A. Oh, yes. 11 Q. Okay. So you opened up the front door and the 12 parents would park out here? 13 A. There was a parking lot back here too. We 14 opened up this door as well in the back. 15 Q. Okay. So why don't you label that as parking 16 in the back. 17 A. There's also parking here. Do you want me to 18 label that? 19 Q. Yes, if you wold. So there's parking on the 20 front side near Independence and parking in the rear of 21 the building? 22 A. Uh-huh. 23 Q. And what was this street right here? 24 A. Parkhaven. 25 Q. Parkhaven. If you will, label that. Which 0040 01 direction is north? 02 A. This is (indicating). 03 Q. This way? 04 A. Uh-huh. 05 Q. Or this way? 06 A. This way is north. 07 Q. Okay. All right. Now, as you -- which doors 08 did you open that night for the parents? 09 A. We opened these. And I'm not sure if these -- 10 this isn't drawn to scale. There were doors back here 11 on the east entrance also that we opened as well. 12 Q. Okay. So I guess after school you had locked 13 the school down after everybody is out, and then you 14 reopened at 7:00 -- or before 7:00? 15 A. Uh-huh, yes. 16 Q. What time did you reopen? 17 A. I don't remember. Typically we open 30 18 minutes before a meeting or a program. 19 Q. So about 6:30 or so? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. Now, as the parents ingressed to the 22 meeting -- assuming that both of these doors were 23 open -- can you show us the flow of how they would have 24 to ingress to get to rooms 407 and 408? 25 A. Okay. Down this hall, turn here, and turn 0041 01 here. You go through a couple of halls, and 407 and 02 408 are right here. It's not that close to the -- 03 Q. Why don't you label that as 407 and 408. 04 A. (Witness complies.) 05 Q. So approximately how much hallway space would 06 there be between the front door to get back to 407 and 07 408? 08 A. I'm not very good at -- 09 Q. More than ten feet? 10 A. Oh, yes. 11 Q. A couple hundred feet? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I couldn't say. 15 Q. Why don't you -- would you sign this just 16 across the top up here and date it. 17 A. This is the 2nd? 18 Q. I'm going to mark this as Exhibit 59 that you 19 just did; is that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 (Exhibit No. 59 marked.) 22 Q. Okay. Now, let me ask you, if you would, to 23 use this sheet of paper just to show us the 24 relationship between 407 and 408; in other words, just 25 the rooms, and the hallways that surrounded the rooms. 0042 01 Do you understand my question? 02 A. Uh-huh, yes. 03 Q. Just draw 407 and 408 and kind of show me 04 where doors are and where the hallways are. 05 A. Okay. This is rooms 407 and 408. I'm really 06 not very good at this. 07 Q. There was obviously a hallway somewhere to get 08 to -- 09 A. There's a hallway outside this door. And then 10 it goes back this way as well. 11 Q. Now, is there an entrance from the hallway to 12 407 and 408? 13 A. Yes. There's a door here and a door here. 14 Q. Two doors going into each one? 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. Okay. And where would the front of the 17 building be in relation to 407 and 408 on this drawing? 18 A. Right here. 19 Q. Why don't you put front so we just know -- 20 A. I hope. 21 Q. Approximately how big is the hallway? Is it 22 a typical school hallway? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What, 20 feet across or something? 25 A. I don't -- again, I'm not that good with that 0043 01 type of measure. There's lockers on this side of the 02 hall. 03 Q. Okay. Why don't you just indicate that. Just 04 put lockers. 05 A. (Witness complies.) 06 Q. Are there other classrooms up and down the 07 hall too? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. So let's label this as 60. If you would, sign 10 the bottom of that and date it. 11 (Exhibit No. 60 marked.) 12 Q. Now, so the parents would have to park their 13 cars and then walk to the entrance of the building and 14 then walk through the building to hallways to get to 15 407 and 408? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And the school officials had signs up 18 indicating how to get to the rooms where the math 19 meeting was going to be? 20 A. Yes. And we were out directing as well. 21 Q. Some of the teachers -- 22 A. Some of the teachers -- 23 Q. -- and school officials? 24 A. -- were, yeah. 25 Q. Okay. Now, you'd said that you open the 0044 01 doors probably about 30 minutes beforehand, and the 02 meeting started about 7:00. 03 A. Probably. I couldn't -- I can't remember if 04 that actually happened on this night or not, but that's 05 typically our procedure. 06 Q. You've had other occasions where you have 07 invited parents to come to school in the evening hours 08 during non-curriculum to discuss school issues, haven't 09 you? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. This is not the first time this has ever 12 happened? 13 A. Right, yes. 14 Q. So it's typical for the school, if you want to 15 meet with the parents of that school, to discuss an 16 issue of the school or to discuss curriculum or have a 17 parents meeting, that you would do this kind of 18 procedure? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. Now, who from the administration was 21 present at the meeting? 22 A. Dr. Wohlgehagen. 23 Q. Why was he there? 24 A. He's the math coordinator for the school 25 district. 0045 01 Q. Okay. Anyone else there? 02 A. Donna Criswell. She was the secondary 03 curriculum coordinator. 04 Q. Okay. Anyone else? 05 A. And Dr. Jim Davis. 06 Q. Why was he there? 07 A. He's the central cluster area assistant 08 superintendent. 09 Q. Central cluster? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Superintendent -- assistant superintendent? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What is defined by the central cluster? 14 A. The District has divided the schools in the 15 school district into three clusters by your feeder 16 alignment with high schools. 17 Q. Your feeder? 18 A. The schools that feed into one another that 19 eventually go to the high school. 20 Q. How many high schools are there? 21 A. Right now there's one. Plano Senior High is 22 the high school in the central cluster. 23 Q. So all of the middle schools that would feed 24 into that school are part of the central cluster? 25 A. Yes. 0046 01 Q. And Jim Davis was the assistant superintendent 02 for those schools? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Would that include the lower schools as well 05 as middle schools? 06 A. Yes -- the elementary schools? 07 Q. Yes. 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. So you've got elementary, middle school, and 10 high school? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. All right. So Dr. Wohlgehagen was there that 13 night. Donna Criswell was there. Jim Davis was there. 14 Anyone else from administration there? 15 A. It's possible, but I don't remember. 16 Q. Were you there? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Anyone else in your administration there? Any 19 of your teachers there? 20 A. My math department was there. 21 Q. Who is that? 22 A. Do you want me to name all the teachers? 23 Q. Yes, the teachers that were there. 24 A. Jean Smith, Charlotte Estep, Kathleen Fish, 25 Suzanne Morris, Patty Lutrick, Tawnia King, Brad Nutt. 0047 01 I hope that's everyone. I can't remember. 02 Q. Anyone else there from the District? 03 A. From the school district? 04 Q. Yes, other than janitors and people like that. 05 A. It's possible. Those are the ones that I 06 specifically remember, the ones that I've told you. 07 Q. About what time did you get there that night? 08 A. I don't remember. 09 Q. Before the meeting started? 10 A. Oh, yes. 11 Q. And about how many parents came to the meeting 12 that night? 13 A. I couldn't say specifically. We have our 14 staff meetings in that room, and we comfortably hold 15 about 100, but there were much more than that. 16 Q. So there were more than 100 parents there? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Now, did you see Mr. Kirke there that night? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what did you see Mr. Kirke doing -- or 21 when did you first see Mr. Kirke? 22 A. When I got into the room early, I saw 23 Mr. Kirke. He was already in the room. 24 Q. Was Mr. Kirke -- did you see Mr. Kirke anytime 25 that night attempting to talk with other parents? 0048 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. What did you see him doing? 03 A. I saw him circulating a petition. 04 Q. A petition as in a signature-type petition? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. Okay. Did the petition relate to the 07 connected math program? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. And what did you see him doing with the 10 petition? Handing it to other people? 11 A. Yes, and talking to other people. 12 Q. And visiting with them a little bit? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. One on one? 15 A. In groups. 16 Q. Small groups? 17 A. Some one on one. 18 Q. Two or three people, maybe four? 19 A. Tables of people. 20 Q. Small tables, okay. Visiting with them about 21 the math program? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you see the petition? 24 A. I glanced. I mean, I didn't... 25 Q. Was the petition requesting parents to sign it 0049 01 in opposition to implementing the connected math 02 program? 03 A. That was my understanding. 04 Q. And how did you gain that understanding? 05 A. I don't remember. 06 Q. Okay. Would you look at Exhibit 28, which is 07 in the stack of exhibits in front of you. Was it a 08 petition similar to the Exhibit 28 that I've shown you? 09 A. I don't remember. 10 Q. Let me hand you this. Is this what it looked 11 like? 12 A. I don't remember. 13 MR. BUNDREN: Let me identify that as 14 Exhibit 61. 15 (Exhibit No. 61 marked.) 16 Q. Let me hand you what's been marked as 17 Exhibit 61. Do you remember if it looked like that? 18 A. I don't remember. I'm sorry. 19 Q. Okay. But you don't -- if I showed it to you, 20 you wouldn't remember it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you recall that he was talking with other 25 parents and handing them a petition, and the petition 0050 01 was asking that they sign something in opposition to 02 the connected math program? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Did anyone inhibit Mr. Kirke from doing that? 05 A. Did anyone inhibit him from doing that? 06 Q. Yes. Did anyone tell him he shouldn't be doing 07 that or stop him from doing that? Did you see anyone 08 do that? 09 A. I didn't see anyone doing that. 10 Q. Do you know that he was stopped from doing it? 11 A. It's my understanding he was asked not to do 12 that. 13 Q. And who do you understand asked Mr. Kirke not 14 to do that? 15 A. Dr. Davis. 16 Q. Did you hear Dr. Davis ask him not to do 17 that -- ask him to stop passing those out? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 Q. Did you see Mr. Kirke and Dr. Davis discuss 20 anything? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you see Mr. Kirke passing out any other 23 materials? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What other materials was he passing out? 0051 01 A. I don't remember what they looked like, but he 02 did have other materials. 03 Q. And was it materials relating, as you 04 understand it, to the connected math program? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. And was it materials relating to an opposition 07 to implementing the program? 08 A. It was my understanding that they were in 09 opposition, yes. 10 Q. And was he handing these out to the other 11 parents that were there that night too? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You saw him do that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So he'd walk up to somebody, engage them in 16 some conversation, and ask if they wanted some 17 materials? 18 A. I never saw from start to finish. I was 19 really concentrating on getting the meeting started. 20 Q. Now, did you see him pass out any of these 21 materials out in the hallway? 22 A. No. 23 Q. So you were inside the room? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Do you know if he did pass out materials 0052 01 outside in the hallway? 02 A. I don't know. 03 Q. Don't know one way or the other? 04 A. No. 05 Q. You have no knowledge of that? 06 A. No. 07 Q. Okay. So when you saw him, he was inside 08 rooms 407 and 408? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. And what he did out in the hallway, you 11 wouldn't have any knowledge of? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Was he told that he could not distribute those 14 materials to the parents? 15 A. In rooms 407 and 408? 16 Q. That night when he was passing out the 17 additional materials -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. -- you told me about, was he told he could not 20 distribute those? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Who told him that? 23 A. Dr. Davis. 24 Q. Did you hear Dr. Davis tell him that? 25 A. I don't remember. 0053 01 Q. Did Dr. Davis tell you that he had told 02 Mr. Kirke not to do that? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Did Dr. Davis tell you that he told Mr. Kirke 05 not to hand out the petitions? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. So you weren't the one that gave the order to 08 Mr. Kirke? 09 A. Which order? 10 Q. Either one. 11 A. I asked him -- well, I can't remember. I 12 can't remember. 13 Q. Did you ever -- to the best of your memory, 14 did you ever directly tell Mr. Kirke to stop 15 distributing any of the materials that he had brought 16 with him, either the petitions or the other materials? 17 A. I can't remember. 18 Q. You don't remember one way or the other? 19 A. No. 20 Q. So you couldn't say you did and you couldn't 21 say you didn't? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. You could have, you just don't remember? 24 A. I could have. I don't remember. 25 Q. Did you see Mr. Kirke doing anything else that 0054 01 night? 02 A. Anything else other than what? 03 Q. Sitting and listening. 04 A. Yes. He was circulating and passing out his 05 petition and talking to other people. 06 Q. Okay. And do you know when -- well, you 07 didn't actually see Dr. Davis approach Mr. Kirke; is 08 that correct? 09 A. Not that I remember, no. 10 Q. Did you see anyone else from the school or the 11 administration approach Mr. Kirke that night? 12 A. I think Dr. Wohlgehagen did. 13 Q. Why do you think Dr. Wohlgehagen did? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. Did he tell that you he did? 16 A. I don't remember. 17 Q. Did Dr. Wohlgehagen tell you that he had told 18 Mr. Kirke not to distribute materials or pass out 19 petitions? 20 A. I think that Dr. Wohlgehagen and I spoke to 21 Mr. Kirke about his materials. Exactly what we said, I 22 don't remember. 23 Q. You don't remember one way or the other? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Do you recall that the substance of your 0055 01 conversation with Mr. Kirke was that he was not to 02 distribute those materials? 03 A. No. 04 Q. You don't recall that? 05 A. No, I don't think that was the substance of 06 it. 07 Q. Well, what did you talk with Mr. Kirke about 08 his materials then? 09 A. Well, that his behavior was disruptive. 10 Q. What about his behavior was disruptive? 11 A. He was circulating the petition, he was 12 talking to parents. There were a large number of 13 people in the room that night. I wanted to start on 14 time. 15 Q. Was everybody already sitting down when he was 16 being disruptive, or were they still milling around? 17 A. Most people were seated. 18 Q. Were there people still coming into the 19 meeting? 20 A. I don't remember. 21 Q. Did you officially call the meeting to order? 22 A. Yes, I did. 23 Q. And did you -- now, other than him just 24 talking to people and trying to hand out his 25 materials -- 0056 01 A. And standing up and moving around. 02 Q. -- and standing up and moving around, did he 03 do anything else to be disruptive? 04 A. Not that I can remember. 05 Q. So he didn't try to take over the podium from 06 you? 07 A. No. 08 Q. Okay. He didn't shove you off the podium? 09 A. No. 10 Q. He didn't physically confront you? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. He didn't bring a bullhorn in and try 13 to drown you out? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Nothing like that? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. What was disruptive was the fact 18 that he was trying to visit with other folks that were 19 there and give them some materials. Is that what was 20 disruptive? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Now, he was doing this before the meeting 23 started -- by this, I mean he was distributing 24 materials before the meeting started, didn't he? 25 A. Yes. 0057 01 Q. And you saw him do that, didn't you? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. And he wasn't supposed to be doing that, was 04 he? 05 A. Passing out materials before the meeting 06 started? 07 Q. Passing out any materials. He wasn't supposed 08 to be doing that, was he? 09 A. No. 10 Q. That was a violation of policy of the 11 District, wasn't it? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. As you understand it? 14 A. As I understand it now. 15 Q. Okay. Now, other than what you've talked with 16 your lawyers about, because I don't want to get into 17 your communications with your counsel, but did you 18 subsequently learn that it's the District's policy 19 that parents can't pass out materials at parent-teacher 20 meetings? 21 A. Can you tell me what you mean by subsequently? 22 Q. After the meeting -- or did you know that 23 before the meeting? 24 A. I didn't know it before the meeting. 25 Q. So you didn't know before the meeting that it 0058 01 was district policy that parents can't come to class -- 02 or come to a meeting like that and pass out materials? 03 A. Correct. 04 Q. You didn't know that? 05 A. No, I did not know that. 06 Q. Okay. You've learned that since then? 07 A. Yes, I have. 08 Q. That it's district policy they can't do that? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. So what you saw Mr. Kirke doing before the 11 meeting started, passing out the petitions, passing 12 out the materials before the meeting started, you 13 subsequently learned that what he was doing violated 14 district policy? 15 A. Yes, that's true. 16 Q. So if he tried to do it again, you'd stop him? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And you would instruct him, even today, 19 that he can't do that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. If you had another meeting out there tonight 22 to discuss curriculum and he brought something critical 23 to the curriculum, you'd tell him, you can't pass those 24 materials out? 25 A. Yes. 0059 01 Q. No matter how disruptive or nondisruptive you 02 are, you can't pass those materials out? 03 A. Yes, that they have to be approved. 04 Q. Preapproved; is that right? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. Now, how did you learn that that was actually 07 the district policy? 08 A. I learned it after the meeting. 09 Q. Who told you? 10 A. I don't remember. 11 Q. Was it Dr. Davis or Dr. Wohlgehagen? 12 A. Possibly. 13 Q. All right. And what did you learn after the 14 meeting about the District's policy that Mr. Kirke was 15 allegedly violating? 16 A. That parents cannot come onto campus and pass 17 out materials without prior approval. 18 Q. Now, were you surprised that you didn't know 19 that before the meeting? 20 A. No. There's a lot to learn. 21 Q. You had been with the District for how many 22 years at that point? 23 A. Oh, more than 15. 24 Q. All right. And you didn't know that -- and 25 you'd been an administrator for how long? 0060 01 A. Probably about -- if you counted the dean of 02 students -- about seven years. 03 Q. And you didn't even know that parents, 04 according to the District's policy, were not permitted 05 to pass out materials at a parent-teacher meeting? 06 A. No, I didn't know that. 07 Q. To other parents? They weren't permitted to 08 pass out anything, period? 09 A. I didn't -- I wasn't aware. 10 Q. Didn't know that? 11 A. (Moving head side to side.) 12 Q. Did anybody ever tell you what policy it is 13 that says that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What policy was it? 16 A. Well, I don't remember it specifically, but 17 it's really easy to find. 18 Q. Why is that? 19 A. Because of the way their policies are listed. 20 They may have to do with curriculum. They may have to 21 do with personnel. They may have to do with parent or 22 student rights. It's real easy to find those policies. 23 Q. Well, is there a policy that you're aware of 24 that deals with parents' and students' rights? 25 A. Yes. 0061 01 Q. Do you know what that policy is called? 02 A. No. 03 Q. Let me ask you to look at Exhibit 27. This is 04 a policy we identified with the superintendent last 05 week. Is this the policy you're referring to? 06 A. Is this the policy I'm referring to or 07 that you're referring to? 08 Q. You said you did not know the exact name of 09 the policy or the identification of the policy that 10 would prohibit parents from distributing materials at a 11 parent-teacher meeting. 12 My question is, is that I believe this is 13 called GKA Local. It's Exhibit 27. It has a paragraph 14 on distribution of publications. 15 A. Okay. I was looking at the first one. Yes. 16 Q. Now, let me ask my question. Is this the 17 policy that you were referring to that you learned 18 after the meeting on the 28th would prohibit parents 19 from distributing materials at a school? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Now, is it -- 22 A. That would prohibit parents from passing it 23 out? Is that what you're asking? 24 Q. Well, it was my understanding that after the 25 meeting, someone told you in the administration -- and 0062 01 I assume it was one of your superiors? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. Is that right? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. We can agree on that, can't we? 06 A. Yes, absolutely. 07 Q. All right. One of your superiors told you 08 that a parent coming to a parent-teacher meeting was 09 not allowed to distribute materials to other parents? 10 A. No. Regardless of whether they were parents 11 or not, that people could not come and distribute 12 information on the school campus without prior 13 approval. 14 Q. On your school campus could one student 15 distribute information to another student without 16 getting prior approval? 17 A. They do. 18 Q. Can they, according to your policies? 19 A. Can one student? 20 Q. Can one student distribute to another student 21 during non-curriculum times, while they're on the 22 playground, in the cafeteria, in between classes, 23 without getting prior approval? 24 A. I guess it would depend on what that is that 25 they were distributing. 0063 01 Q. You wouldn't know unless you had prior 02 approval, would you? 03 A. I don't understand. 04 Q. Well, if a student went onto the campus and 05 he's there and he's in between classes and he's not 06 being disruptive and he's not doing it during class -- 07 he's doing it during time in between classes -- 08 A. Uh-huh. 09 Q. -- on the playground, at lunch, can he 10 distribute material to another student without 11 violating policy? 12 A. I'll have to look at the policy again. Can 13 you give me a minute? 14 Q. Sure. 15 A. I have to be honest. I wouldn't know how to 16 interpret that, quite frankly. 17 Q. How about teachers? Can teachers distribute 18 materials to other teachers while they're on the 19 school -- campus during non-curriculum times, I mean, 20 nondisruptive, not interrupting anything? Is that 21 permitted? 22 A. I'd need more clarification of the policy. 23 Q. Okay. So a parent who's invited to come to a 24 school meeting to discuss curriculum, it's your 25 understanding from what your superiors told you, would 0064 01 not be permitted to distribute materials to another 02 parent? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Because that would violate school district 05 policy? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. Now, let's look at Exhibit 27 for a minute. 08 And it says, duplicated, written, or printed materials, 09 handbills, photographs, pictures, films, tapes, or 10 other visual or auditory materials shall not be sold, 11 circulated, or distributed by persons or groups not 12 associated with the school on any school premises in 13 the District unless they have received permission in 14 accordance with FMA Local. Did I read that correctly? 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. Okay. Now, you're a principal who is charged 17 with responsibility of enforcing school district policy 18 at Haggard, on your school campus? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you have your certification and you have 21 training and you've attended courses and you've been in 22 public education for 20-plus years? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is that right? 25 A. (Moving head up and down.) 0065 01 Q. Okay. And you've been an employee of the 02 District for over 15 years? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Now, it says that they can't do this -- it 05 can't be distributed by persons or groups not 06 associated with the school. 07 Is there any definition that you're aware of 08 in the District's policies that defines the word 09 persons? 10 A. No, but I would refer to FMA Local for more 11 clarification. 12 Q. Okay. Is there any definition or explanation 13 or guideline in the policies of the school district 14 that you know of that defines associated with the 15 school? 16 A. There could be. 17 Q. Are you aware of any? 18 A. At this very moment? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. I have not committed the policies to memory. 21 Q. Now, if you're charged with responsibility for 22 enforcing this policy -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- and that's true, isn't it? 25 A. Yes. 0066 01 Q. Okay. Isn't it important that you as the 02 principal of the school know what persons or what 03 groups are or are not associated with the school? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. Okay. Is it important to know the difference 06 between a person and a group? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. So how do you define person for purposes of 09 your policy? 10 A. I take each case on an individual basis and 11 seek further information. 12 Q. But you can't point me or give me a definition 13 of persons in the policy? 14 A. In this particular policy? 15 Q. As it relates to this policy. 16 A. No, I couldn't. I'm sorry. 17 Q. Are students associated with the school? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Are parents associated with the school? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Are teachers associate with the school? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. But you don't know of any policy that defines 24 what associated with the school actually means; is that 25 right? 0067 01 A. I'm not aware of any right now. 02 Q. Hold 27, if you would, and then let's take a 03 look at -- would it be fair that if you don't have any 04 specifics -- let me start my question again. 05 If you don't specifically know what the 06 policies mean when it says persons or not associated 07 with the school, you certainly wouldn't expect parents 08 to have more knowledge of the District's policy than 09 the principal, would you? 10 A. Again, I'd look at it on a case-by-case 11 basis. I mean, I -- I'd rather deal with a more 12 specific issue and clarify it in that manner. 13 Q. Well, has the District given you any specific 14 training as a principal on how to enforce GKA Local and 15 the paragraph dealing with distribution of 16 publications? 17 A. No. 18 Q. And do you have -- outside of the policies, do 19 you have any specific guidelines that give you 20 direction as a principal on how to enforce GKA Local 21 concerning distribution of publications? 22 A. When those issues come up, I always call and 23 ask if I'm not sure. 24 Q. But you don't have any written guidelines that 25 give you any direction on -- 0068 01 A. On how to enforce this policy? 02 Q. On how to enforce it. 03 A. Written guidelines? 04 Q. Yes, ma'am. 05 A. Not that I'm aware of. 06 Q. You don't know -- 07 A. You're asking if there are written guidelines 08 that tell me how to interpret and enforce this policy? 09 You're asking if there are written guidelines? 10 Q. Yes, ma'am. 11 A. No, not to my knowledge. 12 Q. So not only are there no written guidelines 13 and not only have you received no specific training, 14 you're not aware of anything published by the District 15 in writing that would give parents, teachers, students, 16 or administrators direction on how to interpret persons 17 or not associated with or how to enforce this policy? 18 A. For this specific part of the -- 19 Q. Yes, ma'am. 20 A. -- policy right here, no. 21 Q. The one that deals with distribution of 22 publications; you're not aware of any? 23 A. I'm not aware of any. 24 Q. Now, let me ask you to look at Exhibit 49. If 25 you'd keep 27 there and look at 49. Up at the top it 0069 01 says FMA Local. 02 A. Uh-huh. 03 Q. And if you'll look back at 27, it references 04 in the last sentence FMA Local. 05 A. Right. 06 Q. Okay. And if you look at the bottom of 07 Exhibit No. 49, there's a paragraph called prior 08 review; is that correct? 09 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. Now, I want you to take a moment and just look 11 over that paragraph, if you would. Just take a moment 12 to read it. I have some questions about it. 13 A. (Witness reviews documents.) 14 Q. Okay? 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Now, this talks about prior review over 17 materials intended for distribution to students; is 18 that correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And if you look to the last page, the 21 last paragraph, it has a statement there that students 22 who fail to follow procedures shall face disciplinary 23 action; is that correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. In fact, the policy, on its face, doesn't 0070 01 relate to materials intended for distribution to 02 parents, does it? 03 A. No. 04 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with any other 05 FMA Local policy that would relate to distribution of 06 materials to parents? 07 A. No. 08 Q. At the time of the parent meetings in the fall 09 of 1998, it's true, is it not, that the Board of 10 Trustees of the school district had not made a decision 11 on full implementation of this curriculum? 12 A. Yes, that's true. 13 Q. And, in fact, the anticipation of the District 14 and of administrators of the District were that at some 15 point you would ask the Board for full implementation? 16 A. Would you ask that again, please? 17 Q. Yes. The purpose of the parent meetings was 18 to have discussion about the math program, right? 19 A. I -- what do you mean by discussion? 20 Q. Information, exchange of ideas. It was a 21 topic of discussion. 22 A. Our math night was predominantly designed to 23 provide information. 24 Q. About math? 25 A. Yes. 0071 01 Q. And about connected math? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. And at that time, Dr. Wohlgehagen and the 04 other administrators of the central office had -- were 05 proposing that at some point the District Board of 06 Trustees would approve connected math for the whole 07 middle school? 08 A. No. 09 Q. At what point did Dr. Wohlgehagen tell you 10 that he was going to submit it to the Board for 11 approval? 12 A. There's a process that the District uses to 13 recommend textbooks, and that process was used in this 14 case as well. 15 Q. And that process was not completed at this 16 point? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And so it would have been right of the parents 19 to give their input to that, wouldn't it? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. You encourage that, don't you? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. You, as a teacher and a principal and an 24 administrator, encourage parents to give input into the 25 adoption of textbooks, right? 0072 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. It's kind of hard to give input if you don't 03 have knowledge? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. So at the point of this particular meeting 06 when Mr. Kirke was distributing his petition and his 07 materials, a textbook decision had not been made yet? 08 A. That's correct. 09 Q. And the Board had not voted on whether or not 10 to fully implement CMP in all the middle schools? 11 A. That's correct. 12 MR. BUNDREN: Let's take a short break. 13 (Recess from 10:28 to 10:43 a.m.) 14 (Exhibit No. 62 marked.) 15 Q. I'll hand you Exhibit 62. Is that your 16 affidavit that you signed and swore to in this 17 particular case? 18 A. Yes, it is. 19 Q. And is that your signature that's on the last 20 page? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. All right. Let me ask you about paragraph 7. 23 In paragraph 7 you state that Plaintiff, Alfred Kirke, 24 and any other Plaintiff who had children in the program 25 and in attendance at that meeting would be allowed the 0073 01 opportunity to ask questions during the session; is 02 that correct? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Did you open the session up to questions and 05 answers? 06 A. There were two separate parts of the meeting. 07 The first part is where I spoke, and everyone was 08 together. At that point, we took questions briefly. 09 And then after that, every teacher went to his or her 10 classroom, and parents were invited to that classroom 11 where the teachers talked more specifically about the 12 strategies that they used and answered more specific 13 questions based on the grade level and their teaching 14 style and so on. 15 Q. This all dealt with the subject matter of 16 connected math? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. The initial program and the program of the 19 teachers in their classrooms? 20 A. It dealt with our -- with math at Haggard 21 Middle School. 22 Q. Now, I assume that in between the large group 23 meeting and the small group meetings in the classrooms 24 that there would be parents mingling back and forth and 25 dismissing from one room to another room? 0074 01 A. There was a dismissal, but we asked parents to 02 move pretty quickly so that we could get the classroom 03 part of the meeting begun. 04 Q. Now, in paragraph 8 of your affidavit you 05 state that Plaintiff Kirke did not inform me that he 06 intended to pass out fliers and present opposing views 07 at the parents meeting until he was asked to remove his 08 articles from the sign-in table; is that correct? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. Now, that's what you told me about earlier 11 when he was instructed, as you understand it, by 12 Dr. Davis and Dr. Wohlgehagen to remove his materials? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Is that the way you understand it? 15 A. Would you repeat that, please? 16 Q. Did you understand that he was instructed by 17 Dr. Wohlgehagen or Dr. Davis to remove his materials 18 from the sign-in table? 19 A. I actually asked him to move them from the 20 table, from the sign-in table. 21 Q. Oh, you did? 22 A. Uh-huh. 23 Q. All right. Was there a table there where the 24 parents would come and sign in and pick up some 25 materials that the school had? 0075 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. So there would be a place there they'd come. 03 Would they sign their name, or did they just pick up 04 materials? 05 A. I don't think we had a sign-in -- I don't 06 remember if we had a sign-in table or not, but there 07 was a table that had refreshments and materials. And 08 his things were on that table, as well as my things. 09 Q. So you had put together these materials to be 10 distributed to the parents about the program? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And you intended the parents to pick those 13 materials up during the meeting or before or after the 14 meeting? 15 A. Before the meeting. 16 Q. Those were take-home materials, weren't they? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And they were intended -- 19 A. Well -- 20 Q. -- to be distributed and to be picked up and 21 taken home? 22 A. They could take them home, yes. I was going 23 to speak to those materials in the meeting. 24 Q. So those were pre-prepared materials that you 25 prepared that you set out on a sign-in table for 0076 01 parents as they'd come in and they were directed to go 02 pick those materials up? 03 A. Well, it was on the -- they were on the food 04 table, on the snack table. I don't know that I 05 necessarily directed people, you know, please go pick 06 that up. Those were there. 07 Q. So the brownies and the coffee would direct 08 them to come there? 09 A. Probably. 10 Q. All right. So if you want to get some food, 11 go over there. And by the way, when you there, there's 12 materials. 13 A. Well, actually we had a shortage of tables, 14 and so that was just -- we put everything on the one. 15 Q. Okay. And it was on this sign-in table or 16 this table where you had displayed your refreshments 17 and your materials -- 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. -- that Mr. Kirke also had his materials -- 20 A. Yes, he did. 21 Q. -- which were in opposition to what the school 22 district was attempting to promote that night? 23 A. I don't know if they were in opposition or 24 not. 25 Q. But you instructed him to remove his materials 0077 01 from that table? 02 A. Yes, I did. 03 Q. Did he comply with that instruction? 04 A. Yes, he did. 05 Q. If he had not complied with that instruction, 06 would he have been in violation of district policy? 07 A. If they had just been sitting on the table, 08 would he have been in violation of district policy? 09 Q. Well, you instructed him to do it for a 10 reason, didn't you? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. And you knew enough to know that his 13 materials didn't support the position of the school -- 14 of the administration? 15 A. What I told Mr. Kirke is I didn't want people 16 to think those were my materials. That's why I asked 17 him to move them. I didn't read the content of the 18 material. It was -- you know, I was getting ready for 19 the meeting. I was thinking about getting this thing 20 started, so... 21 Q. Did you MC the meeting? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. At any point during the time that you were 24 emceeing the meeting or at any point during the 25 meeting, did you, yourself, or Dr. Davis or 0078 01 Dr. Wohlgehagen or anybody else from the 02 administration, reference Mr. Kirke and his materials? 03 A. No, not that I remember. 04 Q. For instance, did you stand up and say, we 05 have some materials for you, they're over at the 06 refreshment table if you'd like to pick these up? You 07 talked about that, didn't you? 08 A. I don't remember. 09 Q. Well, you intended on parents picking up 10 materials? 11 A. That's possible. It was two years ago. I 12 don't remember specifically what I said. 13 Q. But you told me earlier that the purpose -- 14 you were going to go over the materials during the 15 meeting? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And so you took the materials that had brought 18 there, that you wanted the parents to pick up, and you 19 went over those materials? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. At any point during that meeting, did you tell 22 any of the parents that Mr. Kirke was there and he had 23 materials that didn't necessarily support your 24 position? 25 A. Not that I remember. 0079 01 Q. Was there ever any information disseminated by 02 the school authorities during that meeting espousing an 03 opposing viewpoint to the CMP? 04 A. No. 05 Q. So the viewpoint of the administration was the 06 viewpoint of promoting the CMP and explaining what it 07 was and the advantages and benefits of the CMP? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. Okay. And there was never an opportunity for 10 anyone else to speak before the group in opposition to 11 the CMP? 12 A. There were many parents who had an opportunity 13 to ask questions -- 14 Q. Yes. 15 A. -- that questions program -- but just stand up 16 and speak? 17 Q. You didn't turn to Mr. Kirke and say, 18 Mr. Kirke, would you like to address the parents? 19 A. No. 20 Q. And he was never given the opportunity to 21 address the parents in an open forum? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. And he was never given the opportunity 24 to explain that he had some materials that would be 25 maybe a contrary view to what the administration was 0080 01 supporting that night; is that correct? 02 A. No, that wasn't the purpose of the meeting. 03 Q. Okay. It wasn't the purpose of the meeting to 04 allow anyone who had an opposing view to get the floor, 05 so to speak? 06 A. They had the opportunity to ask questions. 07 Q. That's all? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. They didn't have the opportunity to stand up 10 and address all the parents? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. You didn't intend on that and that 13 didn't happen? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Now, in paragraph 9 you make reference to what 16 you refer to as highly disruptive behavior by 17 Mr. Kirke. Now, is this in reference to anything other 18 than what we have already covered? 19 A. Will you refresh my memory as to what we've 20 already covered? 21 Q. I think you said that Mr. Kirke was attracting 22 attention with the parents, that some of them were 23 coming up to him, he was passing out literature, he was 24 passing out petitions, he had various small groups of 25 parents, he was going around to the various tables 0081 01 handing out materials until he was told he couldn't. 02 And you considered that to be disruptive? 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. Is that what you're referencing here? 05 A. Yes. 06 Q. Anything else? 07 A. Not that I can recall at this time. 08 Q. Now, were Mr. Kirke's materials causing a 09 riot? 10 A. A riot? 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. No. There was not a riot. 13 Q. Was it causing the other parents to yell, to 14 scream, to be disruptive themselves? 15 A. No yelling and screaming, no. 16 Q. So his materials weren't inciting any kind of 17 insurrection or anything? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Were any of the parents waving his materials 20 in the air and saying something obscene or obnoxious to 21 the school authorities? 22 A. I don't remember any obscenities, but there 23 was a -- there was a feeling in the room of -- it's 24 hard for me to describe, but I feel like Mr. Kirke's 25 activities contributed to, in that what we were 0082 01 doing -- what -- that connected math was wrong and it 02 was hurting children and that we shouldn't be doing it. 03 Q. What do you mean by a feeling in the room? 04 What's the basis of this feeling that you sensed in the 05 room? 06 A. There were parents who -- there was one parent 07 who said to me, you know, I can't wait to get ahold of 08 Wohlgehagen. There was -- there just seemed to be talk 09 that -- and I don't remember -- I have to tell you, I 10 don't remember specifically, but there was a mood in 11 the room that -- there was a mood in that room that 12 what we were doing was wrong. 13 Q. It wasn't disruptive just because there was a 14 mood, was it? 15 A. It was hard to get the group settled down to 16 start the meeting, yes. 17 Q. Because there were people who held some 18 opposing views? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And there was a mood in the room that there 21 were people in that room who held opposing views to 22 what you -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- and Dr. Davis and Dr. Wohlgehagen were 25 trying to promote? 0083 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. But no one attempted to physically remove you 03 from the -- 04 A. Oh, no. 05 Q. -- platform? 06 A. No. 07 Q. Or Dr. Wohlgehagen? 08 A. No. 09 Q. Or Dr. Davis? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And no one shouted you down? 12 A. No. 13 Q. There were no bullhorns? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. There was no one to throw paper 16 airplanes or spit wads at you or anything like that, 17 right? 18 A. No. 19 Q. It was just a feeling or a mood or a sense of 20 an opposition to what you were doing? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is that what you're referring to as being 23 disruptive? 24 A. His moving about the room and talking to other 25 parents was disruptive during the meeting. 0084 01 Q. Did you tell him to sit down and be quiet? 02 A. No. 03 Q. Well, why not? 04 A. I don't know. 05 Q. You tell your students to sit down and be 06 quiet, don't you? 07 A. I wasn't dealing with students. 08 Q. You were dealing with someone that was there 09 by your invitation. 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And you were the principal? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. But you didn't feel you had the authority to 14 tell a parent to sit down and be quiet? 15 A. It wasn't about authority. 16 Q. You could have told Mr. Kirke -- Mr. Kirke, 17 would you please sit down until the meeting is over and 18 be quiet, and then you can start talking to parents 19 after the meeting is over. You didn't tell him that, 20 did you? 21 A. No. 22 Q. At the time of this meeting -- of the parents 23 meeting, you had been in a pilot program at Haggard on 24 CMP for, what, two years? 25 A. Yes. It was our third year. 0085 01 Q. So the curriculum that you were using for 02 those grade levels was the CMP curriculum? 03 A. We were using school district curriculum. 04 Q. But it used the CMP? 05 A. The CMP strategies, yes. 06 Q. Within that curriculum? 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. And you'd been doing that for two years? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. And other than the meeting, had you 11 ever had other parents who expressed to you concern 12 about connected math? 13 A. I had a few. 14 Q. And did they call you or come in and see you? 15 A. When they called, I asked them to come in. 16 Q. Who were the other parents that had expressed 17 concern to you about connected math? 18 A. Sally Smith. 19 Q. Is her child enrolled at your school? 20 A. I'm sorry? Was her child enrolled -- 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. Yes, he was. 23 Q. Who else? What other parents? 24 A. I don't remember specific names. 25 Q. What did Ms. Smith tell you about her concerns 0086 01 about connected math? 02 A. From what I can remember, I think her main 03 concern was that she was afraid her child wouldn't be 04 getting the basic skills. 05 Q. So she was concerned about basic arithmetic, 06 basic math? 07 A. Right, having a foundation so that her son 08 could move into those higher levels of math in high 09 school. 10 Q. During your pilot program for the grades where 11 connected math was used, did you offer the parents or 12 the students a traditional math curriculum without 13 connected math? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So all students at that grade level during the 16 pilot program were forced to take connected math? 17 A. All of those except for special education 18 students. 19 Q. Did you understand that some of the parents 20 simply wanted the right to have an option to have a 21 traditional math? 22 A. Not until the fall of that year. Not until 23 1998. 24 Q. And how did you come to learn in 1998 that a 25 lot of the parents just wanted to have a basic math 0087 01 course as an option? 02 A. Well, I was aware of the petition that was... 03 Q. Being circulated? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. By the Plaintiffs? 06 A. Yes. 07 Q. How else did you become aware that they just 08 wanted to have an option to have traditional math? 09 A. I don't know that there was another, in 10 talking with individual parents. But we addressed 11 those concerns with individual parents within the 12 classroom, and that's what I continued to tell parents, 13 regardless of what program we're teaching, if you see 14 that your child has a need for more basic skill, for 15 more drill and practice, or for whatever, we'll meet 16 those individual needs for your child. 17 Q. But only if the parent came in and complained? 18 A. No, no. I said that in the newsletter. I 19 said that at PTSO meetings. I said that in front of 20 parents as often as I could. 21 Q. But a student in the grade level where CMP had 22 been piloted at your school would be in that CMP 23 program and didn't have the right to option out of it? 24 A. Option out of that program? 25 Q. Out of CMP, right? 0088 01 A. Right, unless they were in special education. 02 Q. I understand. That's for students who have 03 some type of learning deficiency? 04 A. Learning disability, yes. 05 (Exhibit No. 63 marked.) 06 Q. Let me hand you Exhibit 63. You told me 07 earlier that Jim Davis was the assistant superintendent 08 for the cluster that you were part of? 09 A. Yes, that's correct. 10 Q. And so Dr. Davis would have been -- is he your 11 immediate supervisor? 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. Okay. So he was the one you reported to? 14 A. Yes, he was. 15 Q. He's the one that gave you your reviews? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And Dr. Davis, from time to time, sent out 18 e-mails to all the administrators within his cluster, 19 didn't he? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. And Exhibit No. 63 is one of those 22 e-mails, isn't it? 23 A. It's possible that it could be. I can't say 24 whether it was or wasn't. 25 Q. Well, now this states, I want to alert all of 0089 01 you of our district legal position regarding people 02 coming on to your campus with petitions and materials 03 associated with the connected math program. You are 04 not to allow anyone to come on to your campus, inside 05 or out, to circulate a petition or pass out material 06 related to the connected math program. Is that right? 07 A. That's what it says, yes. 08 Q. Okay. And that's consistent with what 09 Dr. Davis had told you? 10 A. Dr. Davis had told us that people could not 11 pass out information without prior approval. 12 Q. So the statement that you are not to allow 13 anyone to come on to your campus, inside or out, to 14 circulate a petition or pass out material related to 15 the connected math program is consistent with what he 16 verbally told you the District's policy to be? 17 A. From what I can remember, yes. 18 Q. Okay. Now, the next statement -- the next 19 sentence of this exhibit, the recent flap over the 20 connected math program has prompted some people to 21 conduct personal campaigns supporting one side or the 22 other. That was going on in August of 1998, wasn't it? 23 A. What was going on? 24 Q. That there were personal campaigns -- one 25 side, this side; one side, this side. That was going 0090 01 on in the District, wasn't it? 02 A. Personal campaigns? 03 Q. That's what it says -- supporting one side or 04 the other. 05 A. But, I mean, I don't know that this was the 06 e-mail that Dr. Davis actually sent. 07 Q. You don't deny it, do you? 08 A. I cannot deny or confirm it. 09 Q. Do you keep copies of your e-mails? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Did Dr. Davis ever tell you, don't get caught 12 napping on this one? 13 A. Not that I remember. 14 Q. Did he ever caution you about being alert to 15 all these parents coming on to oppose this program? 16 A. Not couched in those terms, no. 17 Q. Well, he was the one that was responsible for 18 keeping you up to date on policies, wasn't he? 19 A. He wasn't the only one responsible for keeping 20 me up with them. 21 Q. He was one, wasn't he? 22 A. He was one. 23 Q. And it wouldn't be untypical for him to inform 24 you by e-mail of a district policy related to a 25 specific incident that has been occurring? 0091 01 A. Correct. 02 Q. So this is a typical type of report or e-mail 03 that you would get from Dr. Davis, informing you of the 04 District's policy or the District's position on certain 05 things? 06 A. You're saying this could have been a typical 07 type of -- 08 Q. Yes. 09 A. It could have been. But in most cases, Jim 10 Davis talked to you individually. 11 Q. Okay. It would not -- 12 A. He typically did not use e-mail. He spoke 13 with you individually. 14 Q. But what he's communicating here to those that 15 are involved in the cluster is a very typical type of 16 communication you would get from your superior? 17 A. Well, you're assuming that he actually wrote 18 this. And I'm saying -- 19 Q. You're absolutely right. 20 A. -- I can't. I can't confirm or deny that, 21 so -- 22 Q. I understand that. 23 A. -- I guess I can't answer the question. 24 Q. But you can answer that this is the type of 25 instruction that Dr. Davis would typically give to you? 0092 01 A. What do you mean by this is the type? 02 Q. I want to alert you of the District's 03 position, and then an instruction that you are not 04 allowed to do certain things. And then an instruction 05 about there's been recent issues concerning certain 06 matters. 07 A. Sir, would you mind asking that question 08 again, please? 09 Q. This is a typical type of communication -- the 10 substance of the communication is a typical type of 11 communication that your superior would send you? 12 A. No. 13 Q. You mean he wouldn't tell you about -- 14 A. He would -- he would tell me verbally. 15 Q. Do you have any explanation as to where this 16 came from? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. Now, I want to ask you -- let's suppose 19 that in a week or so there's going to be another 20 parent-teacher meeting to discuss a curriculum issue. 21 A. A week from the last -- 22 Q. Today -- no, a week from tonight. 23 A. A week from today. 24 Q. Let's just suppose there's going to be a 25 meeting, and they're going to discuss a curriculum 0093 01 issue. I don't care what it is. It could be math, 02 English, history. It might be even a controversial 03 book that they're reading is literature. Sometimes 04 that happens, doesn't it? 05 A. Yes, it does. 06 Q. Okay. And suppose that you wanted to have a 07 parent-teacher meeting to discuss the curriculum. And 08 you sent a flier out through the knapsacks and it went 09 home to the kids. All the parents showed up. 10 Now, if Mrs. Jenkins or Mr. Kirke or any of 11 the Plaintiffs or any parent showed up with written 12 materials, a flier saying something about the 13 curriculum or maybe saying something about the 14 controversial book, even today they wouldn't be allowed 15 to pass those out, would they? 16 A. Not without prior approval. 17 Q. So if they showed up and started passing those 18 out, what would you do? 19 A. I would ask them not to pass it out. 20 Q. Pursuant to district policy? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Because you now know that's the policy? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. If they signed -- if they wanted to 25 circulate a petition at one of these parent-teacher 0094 01 meetings next week opposing a curriculum or opposing a 02 book that the District has adopted at a parent-teacher 03 meeting after hours, same situation as the math 04 meeting? Would they be permitted to do that? 05 A. Probably not. I'd have to ask specifically 06 what their intent was and -- I need -- the way that I 07 make these decisions is on an individual basis. I look 08 at the policy and call my superiors. 09 Q. Well, if they're there that night doing it, 10 you've got to make a decision. 11 A. Exactly. 12 Q. And what would your decision be? 13 A. I'd ask them not to do it. 14 Q. Because of the district policy? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And because of what you've learned? 17 A. Uh-huh, yes. 18 Q. So let me get this clear. As it stands right 19 now, if a parent of a child enrolled at Haggard Middle 20 School during non-curriculum times came to a 21 parent-teacher meeting and wanted to pass out materials 22 concerning the subject matter of the meeting, they 23 wouldn't be permitted to do that today? 24 A. I'd have to ask what their intent was in 25 passing out the materials. 0095 01 Q. Does that matter to you? 02 A. Yes. 03 Q. Okay. Would that affect whether or not you 04 would allow them to pass them out or not pass them out? 05 A. It might, because the purpose of those 06 meetings is for us to give information and to develop 07 trust with the parents and to let them see the 08 classrooms, the teachers, and what we're doing. 09 We aren't making the policy there on our 10 campus, so I don't know that that's really the 11 appropriate place for them to do that. 12 Q. And if they passed out materials critical of 13 what you were doing, then that would harm the trust? 14 A. No, no. There are people who disagree with 15 what I do that I have been in disagreement with that I 16 still have trust with. I'm sure you do too. 17 Q. But my point is, is that same -- same 18 circumstance as the Haggard math night. It could be a 19 different curriculum, could be a book. It's a 20 parent-teacher meeting. They've been invited to come. 21 It's after hours. The kids aren't there. It's in 407 22 or 408. 23 A. Uh-huh. 24 Q. And if Mr. Kirke or some other parent showed 25 up and wanted to distribute a flier talking about the 0096 01 subject matter of the meeting, critical of a book, 02 but -- let's just pick a book that you've adopted -- 03 and it's critical of that book. Under your policies 04 right now as they stand, you wouldn't permit them to do 05 that, would you? 06 A. Correct. 07 Q. Am I correct? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. Okay. And you would instruct them to take 10 those fliers -- and you can't pass them out anywhere on 11 the campus? 12 A. I think they could pass it out on the 13 sidewalk. 14 Q. Public sidewalk? 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. I'm talking about anywhere in the building or 17 anywhere on the campus. You wouldn't permit them to do 18 that, would you? 19 A. Probably not, no. 20 Q. If it was in the hallway, if it was in the 21 portico out front, if it was in the parking lot, you 22 wouldn't permit them to do it because that's school 23 property? 24 A. I would follow policy. 25 Q. And policy says they can't do it, the way you 0097 01 understand it? 02 A. The way I understand it, but I -- again, I 03 feel like policies are always open to interpretation. 04 (Exhibit No. 64 marked.) 05 Q. I'll hand you Exhibit 64. Exhibit 64 is 06 Judge Brown's order that Judge Brown signed on May 4, 07 2000. Have you seen this before? 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. Did you get a copy of it? 10 A. Yes, I did. 11 Q. Since you received and got a copy of Judge 12 Brown's order, to your knowledge, has the District made 13 any changes in the way that it's going to interpret and 14 enforce its policy concerning distribution of materials 15 by parents? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Have you received any directions from the 18 superintendent or your assistant superintendent for 19 your cluster instructing you about any changes in the 20 way the District is going to implement its policy on 21 distribution of materials? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Have you received any training as a principal 24 and administrator since Judge Brown's order? 25 A. Formalized training, no. 0098 01 Q. Instruction, training, e-mails, letters? 02 A. It's possible that there's been instruction, 03 but I can't recall any. I don't recall anything 04 specific. 05 Q. So even after Judge Brown's order, it's status 06 quo with respect to the District's implementation of 07 the policies we've been talking about? No change? 08 A. That's my understanding. 09 Q. At least if there's a change, you don't know 10 about it? 11 A. That's possible. 12 Q. Okay. But you don't know of any change? 13 A. Not that I can recall. 14 Q. Okay. So to the best of your knowledge, the 15 District has not taken any different approach to the 16 issue of distribution of materials by parents since 17 Judge Brown's opinion in May of 2000? 18 A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q. Let me ask you to look at Exhibit 2. 20 A. I'm sorry. Would you ask me -- which one 21 again? 22 Q. Exhibit No. 2. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. I believe this is a flier going out to parents 25 or guardians from Jim Wohlgehagen and Dwight Beavert; 0099 01 is that right? 02 A. That's what it says, yes. 03 Q. Okay. And the subject matter of this flier is 04 connected math project materials; is that right? 05 A. Looks like it. 06 Q. Okay. Is this something similar to what you 07 passed out at Haggard Middle School that night? 08 A. I don't remember. 09 Q. Do you know what you passed out that night at 10 Haggard Middle School? 11 A. I don't have it all with me, so I couldn't 12 tell you right now everything that I passed out. 13 Q. Approximately how thick was the packet of 14 materials that you passed out to each parent? 15 A. It may have had five sheets in it. I don't 16 remember. 17 Q. Was it signed by anyone? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 Q. How was the material put together that you 20 passed out? 21 A. I don't remember. I think I collated it -- 22 copied it and collated it in a little packet. 23 Q. Where did you get the material from? 24 A. Some of it I got from the District office. 25 Q. Who at the District office did you get it 0100 01 from? 02 A. Jim Wohlgehagen, some math statistics. 03 Q. On connected math? 04 A. Uh-huh, yes. 05 Q. Okay. What other types of information was 06 contained in this material besides math statistics on 07 connected math? 08 A. I don't remember. I would imagine that we had 09 some of this kind of information on how to help your 10 child with homework and how to help your child be 11 successful in math. 12 Q. But it was all materials that were basically 13 in favor of the connected math program? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. There wasn't any dissenting views in the 16 materials you passed out? 17 A. No. 18 Q. By the way, is Exhibit No. 2 the type of flier 19 that the school district permits to be distributed to 20 the parents from the kids taking stuff home? 21 A. If it's signed by the curriculum coordinator, 22 yes. 23 Q. You have a lot of different materials that the 24 school district permits the kids to take home, don't 25 you? 0101 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. Look at Exhibit 28-A, please. Before I ask 03 you about 28-A, let me ask you one additional question. 04 Prior to the time that the CMP program was 05 piloted at Haggard, how often did you as an 06 administrator have meetings with parents to discuss the 07 math curriculum? 08 A. I came on board at Haggard after it had 09 already been implemented. 10 Q. Did you have -- when you were a teacher, did 11 you ever attend any meetings discussing math 12 curriculum? 13 A. I was a history teacher. 14 Q. Okay. Now 28-A, is this the type of flier -- 15 I know that this relates to Meadows and not Haggard -- 16 but is this the type of a flier that the children would 17 be permitted to take home to their parents? 18 A. This is from the PTA of Meadows; is that 19 correct -- PTO at Meadows? Yes. 20 Q. And would the PTO have to get prior approval 21 to have this type of material distributed? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Every time? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And who keeps track of the prior approval 0102 01 granted at your school? 02 A. Who keeps track of it. 03 Q. Yes. 04 A. I don't know that anybody does. I suppose I 05 am the one. If someone were doing that, I would be the 06 one to do it. 07 Q. Are you telling us that every time the PTO at 08 Haggard wants to send something home with the kids, 09 that they have to get prior approval from you? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you keep track of that? 12 A. Well, we have several venues that we send 13 things home. We have a bimonthly newsletter, and we 14 have a newsletter that goes out every six weeks. And, 15 yes, I approve all of that. 16 Q. Are you talking about for your PTO? 17 A. Yes. I thought that's what you asked me. 18 Q. Okay. So your PTO at Haggard has a 19 bimonthly -- 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. -- newsletter? 22 A. Well, it's ours. It's the school's. They 23 actually collate it and organize it for us, but we 24 generate it. And they do have things from time to time 25 that they put in it. 0103 01 Q. Well, now is this a bimonthly newsletter from 02 Haggard Middle School -- 03 A. Yes. 04 Q. -- or is it from the Haggard PTA? 05 A. It's from Haggard Middle School. 06 Q. Okay. So a bimonthly newsletter from the 07 middle school is distributed to the parents -- 08 A. Yes. 09 Q. -- through the backpacks of the children? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. To be taken home to their parents? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And then you have a six-week Haggard 14 newsletter? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And organizations like the PTO can have 17 information put into your newsletter? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And then you have to approve that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What other organizations besides the PTO have 22 had information put into the Haggard Middle School 23 newsletter? 24 A. Clubs and organizations for the school. 25 Q. Outside clubs and organizations? 0104 01 A. Not in the newsletter that's mailed home. But 02 in the newsletter that's sent out twice a month, there 03 are from time to time other -- other information that's 04 sent out that comes through the communications 05 department, that's been approved through the 06 communications department that we send home. 07 Q. For instance, Plano Sports Authority is not a 08 Plano Independent School District affiliate, is it? 09 A. No, it's not. 10 Q. It's a separate organization? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it focuses on sports? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Not education? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. But Plano Sports Authority, which is a 17 separate organization, has distributed materials 18 through the venue of the student's backpacks? 19 A. That has been approved through our 20 communications department, yes, that's correct. 21 Q. And their information contains information 22 about registrations for soccer, basketball -- 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. -- football, baseball, youth sports? 25 A. Yes. 0105 01 Q. Okay. Boy Scouts, they distribute information 02 to the students? 03 A. Not to my knowledge that that's happened at 04 Haggard, not that I can remember. It's possible, but I 05 don't specifically remember anything from the Boy 06 Scouts going home. 07 Q. How about YMCA Indian Guides or Indian 08 Princesses? 09 A. Most of our students are too old for those 10 organizations. 11 Q. For instance, if you'll look at Exhibit 29, 12 this is an American Youth -- 13 A. I'm sorry. This is Exhibit 29? 14 Q. Yes, it's right here. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. This is an American Youth Soccer organization 17 distribution. This is the type of distribution that 18 has gone home in the kids' backpacks? 19 A. I can't say that we have sent anything home 20 from American Youth Soccer. But, again, the things 21 that we send home in our -- what we call our Eagle's 22 Word, if we don't generate them on our campus, they've 23 come through the communications department of the 24 school district. 25 Q. What is the Eagle's Word? 0106 01 A. It's that bimonthly newsletter. 02 Q. Okay. So in addition to the Eagle -- the 03 eagle, is that your mascot? 04 A. Yes. 05 Q. Okay. So in addition to the Eagle's Word, 06 which is your own publication -- 07 A. Yes. 08 Q. -- there are fliers which can also go into the 09 backpacks? 10 A. The Eagle's Word, we collate it all and put it 11 together in one -- one little packet for the kids to 12 take home. So a flier like this, if it had been 13 approved from communications would go in that Eagle's 14 Word packet that we send home. 15 Q. Even though you didn't print it? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. It would be something that somebody else 18 printed and copied and gave to you to be collated? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Into the packet you're sending home with the 21 kids? 22 A. If it was approved by communications, yes. 23 Q. And who actually does the stuffing or 24 collating of these fliers from the PSA and other 25 groups? 0107 01 A. Our PTSO. 02 Q. And then how are they distributed to the 03 children? 04 A. Through their 6th period class. 05 Q. So from some location, they're distributed out 06 to the 6th period class -- which is the last period of 07 the day? 08 A. It's the next to the last period of the day. 09 Q. Okay. And the kids are -- it's distributed 10 out in the classroom? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And the kids take those home to their parents? 13 A. Yes, that's our hope. 14 Q. And it's an intended form of communication 15 from the school to the parents? 16 A. Yes, it is. 17 Q. Of the information that you want the parents 18 to hear? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. Did you ever have a request from any of 21 the Plaintiffs or Mr. Kirke or anyone else to 22 distribute any of their materials through this system? 23 A. No, not that I remember. 24 Q. Would they have been permitted to distribute 25 their materials like the PSA was? 0108 01 A. If it had been approved through the 02 communications department, yes. 03 Q. Do you know what's required for that approval? 04 A. No, I don't. 05 Q. Let me ask you to look at Exhibit 31. 06 A. Oh, sorry. 07 Q. This is a Plano Baseball Association and 08 Plano Girl's Softball Association sign-up information. 09 Have you seen information like this go through this 10 program? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. So this would be a typical type of thing that 13 would go to your students and to the parents? 14 A. It could. We don't get these very often at 15 the middle school level but, yes, we have sent these 16 home before. 17 Q. Okay. Look at 32, if you would. This a Plano 18 Sports Authority flier on fall registration for 19 football, drill team, baseball, volleyball, basketball, 20 hockey. Is that a typical type of flier? 21 A. We've sent these out before, yes. 22 Q. Okay. Let's see. You said Indian Guides you 23 don't believe you have? 24 A. No. 25 Q. That's more an elementary school distribution? 0109 01 A. Yes. 02 Q. How about Punt, Pass, and Kick? 03 A. Not to my knowledge. 04 Q. Okay. You don't ever remember doing that? 05 A. No. 06 Q. This is sponsored by the Plano East 07 Quarterback Club. If -- do you know if they have a 08 right to have this distributed out? 09 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Okay. How about 35? This is a Little Caesars 11 Pizza Party for Armstrong Middle School. Have you ever 12 had any pizza parties that you've distributed 13 information out about from Haggard? 14 A. We were a partner with Domino's Pizza. And on 15 a certain night, part of the proceeds would go back to 16 our PTSO. 17 Q. So you distributed information through the 18 students to the parents about that? 19 A. I don't know. I cannot remember. At that 20 time, we didn't have the Eagle's Word. We're no longer 21 doing that, and I cannot remember if we actually sent 22 things home with the students or if we -- how we 23 actually communicated that. I can't remember. 24 Q. What program is it you're no longer doing? 25 A. Domino's Pizza Night. 0110 01 Q. So you've done that before; you're not 02 currently doing it? 03 A. Correct. Our PTSO actually did it. 04 Q. Exhibit 36 is American Youth Student and 05 Sports Insurance from Markel Insurance Company. Do you 06 ever recall sending something down about this? 07 A. I know that -- I know that students in 08 athletics get information about this, and certainly all 09 students get information about insurance. I can't tell 10 you if this is the specific one. 11 Q. Is that the type of information that you send 12 home with your packets? 13 A. At the beginning of the year. From briefly 14 looking at it, it could be. 15 Q. Okay. Go on over to Exhibit 38. This is a 16 PTO-PTA fund-raiser. Is this the type of thing that 17 you would send home from Haggard if your PTO-PTA was 18 going to do that? 19 A. Yes, we could. 20 Q. Okay. Look at 39. This is a Paperboard 21 Recycling flier. Is this the type of flier that you 22 have sent home before? 23 A. No. We have never sent anything out like 24 this. 25 Q. Who makes the decisions at your school as to 0111 01 what does or does not get included in the packet that 02 goes home? 03 A. Well, I do -- and the things, again, that come 04 from central office -- that have prior approval by 05 central office. I allow those to go into the Eagle's 06 Word. 07 Q. Is there some type of protocol for central 08 office notifying you that something has been approved? 09 A. Yes. 10 Q. Does it have to come down through some kind of 11 internal mail system or something? 12 A. Typically we get it through inter-school mail, 13 with a cover letter that it's all right for 14 publication -- or not publication -- it's all right for 15 distribution. 16 Q. And who at the central office do you get this 17 from? 18 A. Carole Greisdorf. 19 Q. And is there a procedure by which you keep 20 track of what Carole Greisdorf has approved and not 21 approved? 22 A. There's not a formalized procedure. I keep 23 copies of everything that goes out in the Eagle's Word 24 and in the newsletter. 25 Q. So you have that in your desk or -- 0112 01 A. For the past two years, yes. 02 Q. For the past two years. Is there something 03 that -- is there something indicating where something 04 had been suggested but has not been approved? 05 A. Not to my knowledge -- not that I can -- I 06 don't think so. I'm not saying that it hasn't, but I 07 can't recall any right now. 08 Q. Okay. So when you say there's packets of 09 information on the Eagle's Word, a flier would go into 10 that packet -- 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. -- even though you didn't print it, if it's 13 been approved? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Do you know where those are in your 16 desk? 17 A. Uh-huh. Yes, I do. 18 Q. Look at 44, if you would. This is a flier on 19 The Classics Studio -- art, fine art, theater, 20 something outside the school. Is this the type of 21 flier that you would distribute in the Eagle's Word? 22 A. I don't think we've distributed one like 23 this. I have an elementary age child, and I know I've 24 seen this in her backpack, but I don't think we've sent 25 it out through Haggard. 0113 01 It may be that we did -- I don't think that 02 this organization sends out enough for us to send it to 03 everybody, and I don't know if this organization has 04 prior approval. I just can't speak to that. I'm 05 sorry. 06 Q. But you recall seeing this coming home from 07 your own child -- 08 A. Possibly. 09 Q. -- in their backpack? 10 A. Possibly. 11 Q. Okay. How about 45? This is a Six Flags 12 promotion. Have you ever seen one of these? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you recall this going out to the students? 15 A. I don't recall if we have or not. 16 Q. Where do you recall seeing this? 17 A. I recall seeing the teachers have it. I don't 18 know if we've sent it to students. I don't know. 19 Q. Let me ask to you look at Exhibit 50. This is 20 a photograph of Mr. Kirke with a sign that states, 21 Plano officials will not allow me to pass out fliers or 22 circulate a petition requesting a conventional math 23 choice at this meeting. For more information see me 24 after the meeting or call -- and it has a phone number. 25 Have you ever seen this sign before? 0114 01 A. No. 02 Q. Now, as you understand current policy at the 03 school district, would Mr. Kirke be permitted to 04 display this sign at a parents meeting? 05 A. I'd have to ask. 06 Q. So if he showed up at a meeting with this 07 sign, you wouldn't know what to do? 08 A. I'm saying if he showed up with a meeting like 09 this -- with a sign like this at a meeting that I was 10 giving -- and it looks like he's outside of the 11 building -- is that -- I can't tell. 12 Q. No, I don't think the picture is 13 representative of the school at all. If he showed up 14 in the hallway or inside the meeting -- inside room 407 15 and 408 holding this sign? 16 A. I probably wouldn't do anything. 17 Q. You don't know? You might; you might not? 18 A. If it just happened, I probably wouldn't do 19 anything unless he was disruptive. 20 Q. What if a lot of parents started asking 21 questions about what Mr. Kirke was saying? 22 A. I'd ask them if we could return to the reason 23 why we were at the meeting. 24 MR. BUNDREN: Give me a couple of 25 minutes. Let's take a short break. 0115 01 (Recess from 11:31 to 11:34 a.m.) 02 MR. BUNDREN: That's all the questions 03 that we have of Ms. Burleson at this time. 04 MR. ABERNATHY: We reserve our questions. 05 (Deposition concluded at 11:34 a.m.) 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0116 01 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE 02 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 03 ------------------------------------------------------ 04 ------------------------------------------------------ 05 ------------------------------------------------------ 06 ------------------------------------------------------ 07 ------------------------------------------------------ 08 ------------------------------------------------------ 09 ------------------------------------------------------ 10 ------------------------------------------------------ 11 ------------------------------------------------------ 12 ------------------------------------------------------ 13 ------------------------------------------------------ 14 ------------------------------------------------------ 15 ------------------------------------------------------ 16 ------------------------------------------------------ 17 ------------------------------------------------------ 18 ------------------------------------------------------ 19 ------------------------------------------------------ 20 ------------------------------------------------------ 21 ------------------------------------------------------ 22 ------------------------------------------------------ 23 ------------------------------------------------------ 24 ------------------------------------------------------ 25 ------------------------------------------------------ 0117 01 I, ROXANNE BURLESON, have read the foregoing 02 deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is 03 true and correct, except as noted above. 04 05 06 07 ---------------------------- 08 ROXANNE BURLESON 09 10 THE STATE OF --------------------- ) 11 COUNTY OF ------------------------ ) 12 12 13 Before me, -----------------------------------, 13 personally appeared ROXANNE BURLESON, known to me (or 14 proved to me under oath or through -------------------) 14 (description of identity card or other document) to be 15 the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing 15 instrument and acknowledged to me that they executed 16 the same for purposes and consideration therein 16 expressed. 17 17 Given under my hand and seal of office this 18 18 --------- day of ---------------------, -------. 19 19 20 20 ---------------------------- 21 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 21 THE STATE OF ---------------- 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 0118 01 STATE OF TEXAS * 02 COUNTY OF DALLAS * 03 This is to certify that I, Sunny Schaen, Certified 04 Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, 05 certify that the foregoing deposition of ROXANNE 06 BURLESON, was reported stenographica